Thinking about Film School

Don Donatello · June 27th, 2006, 04:02 PM

when you say film school are you talking a place of study that is ONLY film and no other area's of study or do you mean a college like UCLA where not only will you study film but you'll be getting a general all around education ?

the bottom line is you have a BA/MA degree VS. a person without a degree - you both show up in LA on same day - you both have a equal chance at a PA/runner position ...

IMO: get the education !! a well rounded one = it will last a LIFE time.
when you graduate take several months off to travel the states/world ..
you'll have plenty of years to WORK in your life (figure 30-40years) ...

many of the close friends i have today i meant in college 25 years ago.
film friends (persons you meet on shoots-networking) are always coming & going ...

Ernesto Llano · June 27th, 2006, 04:14 PM

I would definitley go to a school like UCLA, USC, etc. I definitley want to go to college though, so would you guys recommend I consider a more broad category? Like majoring in English, even if I want to work in film?

Also, if I went to college I would always be doing work on the side, as well as film-related summer jobs. So, in your opinion, would it be better to graduate from English, or Art, or Business, and then go into film?

Henry Cho · June 27th, 2006, 05:12 PM

ernesto,

what gets your juices flowing? what would make you get up out of bed and really look forward to your school day? if filmmaking is it, my advice is to just do it. all the contributors to this thread have presented a pretty wide range of opinions, and at the end of the day, you need to extrapolate and decide for yourself. and if you commit to something, and it doesn't fit, bear in mind you're not locked into it. you're free to move on to something else.

one additional point to weigh -- i ran into some current nyu film students while i was out for a drink last week. it was interesting that they were still studying and using 16mm film, at least primarily, as opposed to a digital format. it's one thing if you want to buy an xl2 or dvx, and run out and make a minidv indie, but if shooting on film is something that turns you on, film school might be a good opportunity to get some real experience with that under your belt.

in terms of a college degree, i would say that it's importance in creative shops is that you simply have one. it shouldn't be underestimated as it is still a requirement in many job postings, but it shouldn't be overestimated either. getting a ba in any of the arts is pretty much all one and the same when you're applying for a creative position. if you apply for a graphic designer position and you have a ba in creative writing, it won't really matter if your design portfolio is good. when interviewing, i find i only glance over a resume, and really focus on a reel/portfolio, regardless of experience. this is true of my colleagues as well.

hope that helps.

Roger Rosales · June 27th, 2006, 07:04 PM

Ernesto,

Stop asking us to tell you what to do. You keep regurgitatingg the same question, "Should I enter a broader field even though I want to work in film?".

It's obvious you want to work in Film, so I say, go to film school, but first do much more research on it. Try and find the best school, but don't sell yourself short. If you're going to do something, then do it, without ANY doubts. Most failures are because of doubts and insecurities. In the end, like many have stated, it's your drive and passion to do what it is you love, regardless of how many times you fall down.

I'm currently looking to enroll in the Los Angeles Film School, but like you, I wasn't sure--not because of the same worries you have, but because I thought film school was a big waste of time and money. I truly did.

But the thought of networking and finding people to work with was what eventually led to my decision to enroll. Where I live, there's NOBODY. I don't have ANY friends that love film as much as I do.

This is the only real BIG reason I'm enrolling into the school. Aside from the great equipment I could use along with the extra push they give you to make films CONSTANTLY, networking is without a doubt my biggest reason. It's also to build my social skills, to learn how to talk to people and be able to get what I need efficiently.

In the end man...find your own reasons to go, don't expect too much from us or others.

Good luck and I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make, just make sure it's TRULY what you want.

Mike Teutsch · June 27th, 2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rosales

Ernesto,
But the thought of networking and finding people to work with was what eventually led to my decision to enroll. Where I live, there's NOBODY. I don't have ANY friends that love film as much as I do.

This is the only real BIG reason I'm enrolling into the school. Aside from the great equipment I could use along with the extra push they give you to make films CONSTANTLY, networking is without a doubt my biggest reason. It's also to build my social skills, to learn how to talk to people and be able to get what I need efficiently.

Roger,

I mean no offense, but you are located in or near the film capitol of the world! If you can not find friends or companions who have your interests, then film making is the least of your problems.

Why can't you find people who feel the way you do???????? Please let us know! There must be local film making groups, indie clubs etc., hell there are here in my little neck of Southern Florida!

Mike

Glenn Chan · June 27th, 2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

majoring in English, even if I want to work in film?

I'd major in film. Why:

A- If you're not really interested in English/business/engineering/whatever, then you're probably not going to pay that much attention in those classes. And then you wouldn't get much out of them.

B- If you major in film, chances are higher that you'll be able to borrow gear + get classmates to help out on your shoots.

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.

Studying literature to learn how to write + tell stories would be a worthwhile pursuit... but most institutions don't teach that. You have to write essays analyzing literature (not making it) and you must write them in a formal, academic tone (which you'd almost never do for a screenplay).

2- Look at it this way:
At the end of the day (for film/video), what you did in college isn't going to be that important. A film school degree is not very important at all- there's a glut of film school graduates, yet many people in the industry don't have such a degree. Your drive is more important... just go out there and start getting your feet wet. And have fun- that's important too! :D

Don Donatello · June 27th, 2006, 10:06 PM

just want to remind all that Ernesto is a Jr. in high school .... so 2 more years till he graduates ...
IMO keep your eye on film school ... you might see if you have some interest in related area's IE: photography, writing , basic accounting , basic understanding of business , anything connected to theater - maybe take a acting , lighting, directing class, foreign language ...

also see what your local jr college offers during the summers in areas that interest you ...

Jarrod Whaley · June 27th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Chan

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.

Is cinema any different in that respect? :) We're talking about the Arts, not the Sciences. Well, I am. I don't mean to speak for you.

But back on topic, I agree that you shouldn't major in something that bores you. I double-majored in English and French, because I enjoyed studying both. I'm glad I did that. I didn't want to go to college to learn a vocation, or even to increase my earning potential. I wanted to be educated in a broad sense. As a filmmaker, part of what I do is examine and interpret the world and culture I live in. Sound like what happens in Eng. Lit. classes? :)

I think that going to school just to learn how to tweak buttons and knobs is not necessarily worthwhile. You can learn all of that in the field, and arguably better/faster/more cheaply at that. Button-tweaking is a means, not an end. The message, or story, or whatever you choose to call it is what's important. Making movies is about communication. I happen to believe that you have to think about things (i.e. examine them, interpret them) before you can even hope to have anything worth communicating to anyone.

There's a lot to be said for making one's own discoveries when it comes to making moving images. I think learning to make movies on your own leads down much more creative paths than any kind of institutional group-think can lead to.

With all respect, Glenn, I feel like my B.A. in English/American/French Lit. was very worthwhile. Best money I ever spent. Though I'll be still spending it on loan repayments until the day I croak, it was well worth it.

Ernesto, it's your decision. I'm just talking about my own decisions in the hope that they might help you make yours in some way.

Zack Birlew · June 27th, 2006, 11:45 PM

Getting an English degree won't do anything for you, just teaching at most. Same thing as getting a Film degree but with a film degree you'd be able to teach about film, which would be more fun for you I'd think =).

Film school just doesn't sound worthwhile to some and sounds necessary to others. It's a 50%-50% difference in the responses you'll get. I'm personally doing the more dangerous route and am just majoring in Film in college. I don't care about any other jobs, filmmaking is what I'm going to do no matter what. Film school (ie. UCLA, USC, ect.) afterwards? Maybe. I don't think I need it, it sounds like I'll just be learning the same stuff I'll be learning in my college courses.

In the end, you decide what you want to do. Trust me, if you need film school, you'll know it. The biggest indicator is how people respond to your work. I ruled my film production 1 class and everyone who's seen my first little films has loved each one and my professors are looking forward to seeing what I do in film production 2 in the Fall '06 semester. See, I may not need film school if my work is winning people over already. But some people just aren't getting it at my school, they don't even know about DVInfo.net or DVXUser.com, so they may eventually need film school just for more experience. It depends.

The major consensus seems to be that film school provides networking opportunities, so that is a possible major plus for going. But like I said, it depends on you and what you think is best and no matter what you decide, I wish you good luck because in the end we're all in this business together in one form or another. =)

Jarrod Whaley · June 27th, 2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

Getting an English degree won't do anything for you, just teaching at most.

Well, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just explained at length what my English degree has done for me. There's more to an education than job prospects, in my opinion.

John M. McCloskey · June 28th, 2006, 07:28 AM

If you have a great work ethic and are great with being responsible and also have a clear understanding of what you want to do for a living after graduating high school, I say,"go after it". If you feel you could use some help with these issues, school is a great tool for teaching these issues which promise me you will need to be a success at any trade you intent to make a living at. I went to Fullsail in Winter Park FL. and highly recommend it. You learn a broad understanding of the tools of the trade and they work you all day everyday which is what it takes to develope into a good worker. Good luck.

Emre Safak · June 28th, 2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Chan

C- In my opinion, the study of English literature (as taught in most institutions) is not that worthwhile. The field doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any truths. You can have multiple (valid) interpretations of a work... if the field has any important questions, it doesn't seem to be able to arrive at any answers.

Studying literature to learn how to write + tell stories would be a worthwhile pursuit... but most institutions don't teach that. You have to write essays analyzing literature (not making it) and you must write them in a formal, academic tone (which you'd almost never do for a screenplay).

Say it again, Glenn!

Ari Shomair · June 28th, 2006, 09:38 AM

One vote for a business education here... They don't call it the movie business for nothing!

Zack Birlew · June 28th, 2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

Well, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just explained at length what my English degree has done for me. There's more to an education than job prospects, in my opinion.

Guess that's what I get for not reading the whole entire thread huh? =)

Don Donatello · June 28th, 2006, 11:04 AM

so we've heard that english , film or for that matter BA degree won't get you much ?? except maybe teaching ...

lets look at it from no degree VS. a degree ...
lets face it bottom line is IMO 70% of those that go into film business are not going to be there 5 years down the line ...so whne one leaves the film business 5 years down the line what resume will be put into the call back stack - the one with a BA (in anything) or the one with no degree ?

the english major becomes a teacher , the french major works for american firm that does business in france .. and the no degree person becomes - well they can't teach any subject ... still there are many opportunities for non degree persons but IMO there are more doors open for degree persons AND if you look at study's a degree persons earns more then a non degree person..

realistic - there are 1000's of DP's out there .. how many are making a good living from it ? the list of DP's that are making a good living in LA is actually not that long ... sort of like the # of actors in LA but on a film project there are many actors hired and only ONE DP ....

June 27th, 2006, 11:45 PM	#189
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Getting an English degree won't do anything for you, just teaching at most. Same thing as getting a Film degree but with a film degree you'd be able to teach about film, which would be more fun for you I'd think =). Film school just doesn't sound worthwhile to some and sounds necessary to others. It's a 50%-50% difference in the responses you'll get. I'm personally doing the more dangerous route and am just majoring in Film in college. I don't care about any other jobs, filmmaking is what I'm going to do no matter what. Film school (ie. UCLA, USC, ect.) afterwards? Maybe. I don't think I need it, it sounds like I'll just be learning the same stuff I'll be learning in my college courses. In the end, you decide what you want to do. Trust me, if you need film school, you'll know it. The biggest indicator is how people respond to your work. I ruled my film production 1 class and everyone who's seen my first little films has loved each one and my professors are looking forward to seeing what I do in film production 2 in the Fall '06 semester. See, I may not need film school if my work is winning people over already. But some people just aren't getting it at my school, they don't even know about DVInfo.net or DVXUser.com, so they may eventually need film school just for more experience. It depends. The major consensus seems to be that film school provides networking opportunities, so that is a possible major plus for going. But like I said, it depends on you and what you think is best and no matter what you decide, I wish you good luck because in the end we're all in this business together in one form or another. =) __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

June 27th, 2006, 04:02 PM	#181
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	when you say film school are you talking a place of study that is ONLY film and no other area's of study or do you mean a college like UCLA where not only will you study film but you'll be getting a general all around education ? the bottom line is you have a BA/MA degree VS. a person without a degree - you both show up in LA on same day - you both have a equal chance at a PA/runner position ... IMO: get the education !! a well rounded one = it will last a LIFE time. when you graduate take several months off to travel the states/world .. you'll have plenty of years to WORK in your life (figure 30-40years) ... many of the close friends i have today i meant in college 25 years ago. film friends (persons you meet on shoots-networking) are always coming & going ...

June 27th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#182
Ernesto Llano Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 39	I would definitley go to a school like UCLA, USC, etc. I definitley want to go to college though, so would you guys recommend I consider a more broad category? Like majoring in English, even if I want to work in film? Also, if I went to college I would always be doing work on the side, as well as film-related summer jobs. So, in your opinion, would it be better to graduate from English, or Art, or Business, and then go into film?

June 27th, 2006, 05:12 PM	#183
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	ernesto, what gets your juices flowing? what would make you get up out of bed and really look forward to your school day? if filmmaking is it, my advice is to just do it. all the contributors to this thread have presented a pretty wide range of opinions, and at the end of the day, you need to extrapolate and decide for yourself. and if you commit to something, and it doesn't fit, bear in mind you're not locked into it. you're free to move on to something else. one additional point to weigh -- i ran into some current nyu film students while i was out for a drink last week. it was interesting that they were still studying and using 16mm film, at least primarily, as opposed to a digital format. it's one thing if you want to buy an xl2 or dvx, and run out and make a minidv indie, but if shooting on film is something that turns you on, film school might be a good opportunity to get some real experience with that under your belt. in terms of a college degree, i would say that it's importance in creative shops is that you simply have one. it shouldn't be underestimated as it is still a requirement in many job postings, but it shouldn't be overestimated either. getting a ba in any of the arts is pretty much all one and the same when you're applying for a creative position. if you apply for a graphic designer position and you have a ba in creative writing, it won't really matter if your design portfolio is good. when interviewing, i find i only glance over a resume, and really focus on a reel/portfolio, regardless of experience. this is true of my colleagues as well. hope that helps.

June 27th, 2006, 07:04 PM	#184
Roger Rosales Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Ernesto, Stop asking us to tell you what to do. You keep regurgitatingg the same question, "Should I enter a broader field even though I want to work in film?". It's obvious you want to work in Film, so I say, go to film school, but first do much more research on it. Try and find the best school, but don't sell yourself short. If you're going to do something, then do it, without ANY doubts. Most failures are because of doubts and insecurities. In the end, like many have stated, it's your drive and passion to do what it is you love, regardless of how many times you fall down. I'm currently looking to enroll in the Los Angeles Film School, but like you, I wasn't sure--not because of the same worries you have, but because I thought film school was a big waste of time and money. I truly did. But the thought of networking and finding people to work with was what eventually led to my decision to enroll. Where I live, there's NOBODY. I don't have ANY friends that love film as much as I do. This is the only real BIG reason I'm enrolling into the school. Aside from the great equipment I could use along with the extra push they give you to make films CONSTANTLY, networking is without a doubt my biggest reason. It's also to build my social skills, to learn how to talk to people and be able to get what I need efficiently. In the end man...find your own reasons to go, don't expect too much from us or others. Good luck and I hope you're happy with whatever decision you make, just make sure it's TRULY what you want.

June 27th, 2006, 10:06 PM	#187
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	just want to remind all that Ernesto is a Jr. in high school .... so 2 more years till he graduates ... IMO keep your eye on film school ... you might see if you have some interest in related area's IE: photography, writing , basic accounting , basic understanding of business , anything connected to theater - maybe take a acting , lighting, directing class, foreign language ... also see what your local jr college offers during the summers in areas that interest you ...

June 28th, 2006, 07:28 AM	#191
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	If you have a great work ethic and are great with being responsible and also have a clear understanding of what you want to do for a living after graduating high school, I say,"go after it". If you feel you could use some help with these issues, school is a great tool for teaching these issues which promise me you will need to be a success at any trade you intent to make a living at. I went to Fullsail in Winter Park FL. and highly recommend it. You learn a broad understanding of the tools of the trade and they work you all day everyday which is what it takes to develope into a good worker. Good luck.

June 28th, 2006, 09:38 AM	#193
Ari Shomair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LA, California, USA Posts: 224	One vote for a business education here... They don't call it the movie business for nothing!

June 28th, 2006, 11:04 AM	#195
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	so we've heard that english , film or for that matter BA degree won't get you much ?? except maybe teaching ... lets look at it from no degree VS. a degree ... lets face it bottom line is IMO 70% of those that go into film business are not going to be there 5 years down the line ...so whne one leaves the film business 5 years down the line what resume will be put into the call back stack - the one with a BA (in anything) or the one with no degree ? the english major becomes a teacher , the french major works for american firm that does business in france .. and the no degree person becomes - well they can't teach any subject ... still there are many opportunities for non degree persons but IMO there are more doors open for degree persons AND if you look at study's a degree persons earns more then a non degree person.. realistic - there are 1000's of DP's out there .. how many are making a good living from it ? the list of DP's that are making a good living in LA is actually not that long ... sort of like the # of actors in LA but on a film project there are many actors hired and only ONE DP ....