Obvious cuts and film look at DVinfo.net

Matthew Groff · May 12th, 2003, 01:18 AM

I showed a video to my girlfriend recently after we had just watched a dvd. She said that she thought it looked very good, but there was a problem in that the cuts didn't look seemless like they did on the dvd. I hadn't really thought about it, but when she said it I started to notice it as well. Even shot-reverse shot situations looked sort of choppy. I've heard that real films use a 1 frame cross-dissolve for the cuts. Is this true? Does anyone have any hints for making it appear more seemless? Thanks.

Matt

Ken Tanaka · May 12th, 2003, 01:27 AM

Without seeing the video it's hard to make specific suggestions.

In general, making successful cuts such as you reference is a matter of remaining on the plane of action, making sure that the action and dialog are continuous and making sure that the cuts make sense with the scene's action. "Choppiness" in cuts is usually a matter of obtrusiveness which, in turn, is usually a matter breaks in one of the above rules.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · May 12th, 2003, 02:17 AM

It is not true that feature films use 1-frame dissolves for cuts.

Jeff Donald · May 12th, 2003, 10:25 AM

It might even look worse, maybe like a flash frame.

K. Forman · May 12th, 2003, 10:39 AM

How do they create a cross disolve with film?

Dennis Adams · May 17th, 2003, 11:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Forman : How do they create a cross disolve with film? -->>>

Optically. In the past, the overlapping pieces of source film were sent out, and a new piece of film was exposed, using varying amounts of the original film (100% to 0 for the "out" shot, and 0 to 100% for the "in" shot). This section was then edited into the final film. In some older films, you can these edits before and after a cross dissolve. I'm leaving out the part about interpositives and such.

///d@

Alex Knappenberger · May 18th, 2003, 12:01 AM

Keith, of course, with todays shot 35mm films, the film is telecined to a digital medium and a NLE is used to edit, and then it's put back on film...

Dennis Adams · May 18th, 2003, 12:06 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger : Keith, of course, with todays shot 35mm films, the film is telecined to a digital medium and a NLE is used to edit, and then it's put back on film... -->>>

Only for scenes with CGI. Otherwise, the edited shot list is used to cut together the negatives. Film making is still a very analog medium.

///d@

K. Forman · May 18th, 2003, 05:30 AM

I understood MOST of the concepts and practices behind film editing, just didn't understand the principles behind transitions. Thanks Dennis :)

Zac Stein · May 18th, 2003, 07:10 AM

Dennis, today a common practice is a full intermediate digital tranfer, hence no EDL's, no nada.

They transfer everything they think they will need into an insane rez like 4kx4k then edit the thing and have that printed to film.

Zac

May 12th, 2003, 01:18 AM	#1
Matthew Groff Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 132	Obvious cuts and film look I showed a video to my girlfriend recently after we had just watched a dvd. She said that she thought it looked very good, but there was a problem in that the cuts didn't look seemless like they did on the dvd. I hadn't really thought about it, but when she said it I started to notice it as well. Even shot-reverse shot situations looked sort of choppy. I've heard that real films use a 1 frame cross-dissolve for the cuts. Is this true? Does anyone have any hints for making it appear more seemless? Thanks. Matt

May 12th, 2003, 01:27 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Without seeing the video it's hard to make specific suggestions. In general, making successful cuts such as you reference is a matter of remaining on the plane of action, making sure that the action and dialog are continuous and making sure that the cuts make sense with the scene's action. "Choppiness" in cuts is usually a matter of obtrusiveness which, in turn, is usually a matter breaks in one of the above rules. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 12th, 2003, 02:17 AM	#3
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	It is not true that feature films use 1-frame dissolves for cuts. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 12th, 2003, 10:25 AM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It might even look worse, maybe like a flash frame. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 12th, 2003, 10:39 AM	#5
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	How do they create a cross disolve with film?

May 17th, 2003, 11:50 PM	#6
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Forman : How do they create a cross disolve with film? -->>> Optically. In the past, the overlapping pieces of source film were sent out, and a new piece of film was exposed, using varying amounts of the original film (100% to 0 for the "out" shot, and 0 to 100% for the "in" shot). This section was then edited into the final film. In some older films, you can these edits before and after a cross dissolve. I'm leaving out the part about interpositives and such. ///d@

May 18th, 2003, 12:01 AM	#7
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Keith, of course, with todays shot 35mm films, the film is telecined to a digital medium and a NLE is used to edit, and then it's put back on film...

May 18th, 2003, 12:06 AM	#8
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger : Keith, of course, with todays shot 35mm films, the film is telecined to a digital medium and a NLE is used to edit, and then it's put back on film... -->>> Only for scenes with CGI. Otherwise, the edited shot list is used to cut together the negatives. Film making is still a very analog medium. ///d@

May 18th, 2003, 05:30 AM	#9
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I understood MOST of the concepts and practices behind film editing, just didn't understand the principles behind transitions. Thanks Dennis :)

May 18th, 2003, 07:10 AM	#10
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Dennis, today a common practice is a full intermediate digital tranfer, hence no EDL's, no nada. They transfer everything they think they will need into an insane rez like 4kx4k then edit the thing and have that printed to film. Zac