Frame Mode XL1S at DVinfo.net

Andreas Fernbrant · May 7th, 2003, 08:18 AM

Yepp, another framemode thread.
I finally got my XL1. I have been doing some test shots just to try it out.

Interlaced mode is quite good. And when I do slowmotion on it, it looks great.

I've been fiddeling with frame mode though. Shutter at 1/50 and 1/100. The thing is, I have to tape some serious fast action
(gymnastics, dance, flips and kicks) And I noticed when you pan or tilt quickly it stutters quite hard. (my opinion) I got some video of people doing flips and they look good when I dont pan or tilt with them.. But when I apply Slowmotion, It gets really bad..

The fun thing is. Real 24fps cameras get less stutter with one less frame. So I think there might be a way to work around this problem. (I'm not talking about slowmotion with real motionpicture fast film cameras - 150fps) I talk about when they do ordinary 24fps they get less stuttering if they film fast moving objects. If I add one more frame I should atlest get close to what they get, but how?

Do you guys have any pointers on how to shoot fast moving objects in frame mode?

/Andy

Adrian Douglas · May 7th, 2003, 08:33 AM

The way smooth slow-motion is achieved with film cameras is a technique called "overcranking", where the frame rate of the camera is doubled (48fps) or tripled (96fps) when shooting. When the film is played back at normal speed (24fps) the action is slowed down and appears smooth.

Unfortunately, the XL, or any camera short of Sony CineAltas or Panasonic Varicams cannot be overcranked so you are stuck with having to smooth out slo-mo in post. There are a number of different methods to do this and if you put "slow-motion" into our search function you will find a number of threads discussing them.

Bill Ravens · May 7th, 2003, 08:39 AM

You can "overcrank" captured DV footage with either Vegas 4 or VirtualDub. The process re-renders 60i 29.97 fps footage into 60 fps which you can, then, slow down to 29.97 fps footage with very smooth slo-mo. The 60i is converted to 60p, so some vertical rez is lost.

Andreas Fernbrant · May 7th, 2003, 09:08 AM

I know all this...

But I'm talking about ordinary mode..

I know all about slowmotion and how it works on ordinary camera, I can do great looking slowmo if I shoot interlaced video.

But I get stuttery feeling when I shoot frame even though I don't slowmotion it. Can I do something about that? I shoot 1/50th..

/Andreas

Bill Ravens · May 7th, 2003, 09:15 AM

Frame mode captures two, temporally identical fields every 1/30th(1/25) of a second. Normal mode captures one field every 1/60th(1/50) of a second. Therefore, the temporal resolution in frame mode is 1/2 of what it is in normal, interlaced mode. Unless you do a resample, in which every frame is interpolated, there's nothing you can do to improve frame mode slo-mo's.

Akos Szemenyei · May 7th, 2003, 10:29 AM

I don't have an XL1 but have been reading a lot about it, and it seems that this is because the "Frame Mode" is not true progressive scan, unfortunately you cannot do anything about it, maybe shot interlaced and use the "software" to make it progressive scan and then add slowmotion.

Sorry, don't remember the software name.

May 7th, 2003, 08:18 AM	#1
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Frame Mode XL1S Yepp, another framemode thread. I finally got my XL1. I have been doing some test shots just to try it out. Interlaced mode is quite good. And when I do slowmotion on it, it looks great. I've been fiddeling with frame mode though. Shutter at 1/50 and 1/100. The thing is, I have to tape some serious fast action (gymnastics, dance, flips and kicks) And I noticed when you pan or tilt quickly it stutters quite hard. (my opinion) I got some video of people doing flips and they look good when I dont pan or tilt with them.. But when I apply Slowmotion, It gets really bad.. The fun thing is. Real 24fps cameras get less stutter with one less frame. So I think there might be a way to work around this problem. (I'm not talking about slowmotion with real motionpicture fast film cameras - 150fps) I talk about when they do ordinary 24fps they get less stuttering if they film fast moving objects. If I add one more frame I should atlest get close to what they get, but how? Do you guys have any pointers on how to shoot fast moving objects in frame mode? /Andy

May 7th, 2003, 08:33 AM	#2
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	The way smooth slow-motion is achieved with film cameras is a technique called "overcranking", where the frame rate of the camera is doubled (48fps) or tripled (96fps) when shooting. When the film is played back at normal speed (24fps) the action is slowed down and appears smooth. Unfortunately, the XL, or any camera short of Sony CineAltas or Panasonic Varicams cannot be overcranked so you are stuck with having to smooth out slo-mo in post. There are a number of different methods to do this and if you put "slow-motion" into our search function you will find a number of threads discussing them. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

May 7th, 2003, 08:39 AM	#3
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	You can "overcrank" captured DV footage with either Vegas 4 or VirtualDub. The process re-renders 60i 29.97 fps footage into 60 fps which you can, then, slow down to 29.97 fps footage with very smooth slo-mo. The 60i is converted to 60p, so some vertical rez is lost.

May 7th, 2003, 09:08 AM	#4
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	I know all this... But I'm talking about ordinary mode.. I know all about slowmotion and how it works on ordinary camera, I can do great looking slowmo if I shoot interlaced video. But I get stuttery feeling when I shoot frame even though I don't slowmotion it. Can I do something about that? I shoot 1/50th.. /Andreas

May 7th, 2003, 09:15 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Frame mode captures two, temporally identical fields every 1/30th(1/25) of a second. Normal mode captures one field every 1/60th(1/50) of a second. Therefore, the temporal resolution in frame mode is 1/2 of what it is in normal, interlaced mode. Unless you do a resample, in which every frame is interpolated, there's nothing you can do to improve frame mode slo-mo's.

May 7th, 2003, 10:29 AM	#6
Akos Szemenyei Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saitama, Japan Posts: 111	I don't have an XL1 but have been reading a lot about it, and it seems that this is because the "Frame Mode" is not true progressive scan, unfortunately you cannot do anything about it, maybe shot interlaced and use the "software" to make it progressive scan and then add slowmotion. Sorry, don't remember the software name.