Experimental film-look-dv-camera

Justin Chin · May 17th, 2003, 05:29 PM

Charles:

A very enlightened view as always. BUT I'd have to say that I am way too happy with my mini35 for words. Yes, it has its own operating quirks, but nothing an experienced and willing DP couldn't work with.

It is a fanciful notion to "rephotograph" an image off of a piece of spinning ground glass. Crazy for sure. Though, with the right lenses your image resolution will be BETTER than any other lens you can plop onto the XL1. Don't fear the technology ;)

I will always want to shoot with the mini35 over the vanilla XL1 (or even the DVX100) in almost EVERY instance (unless, of course, the project demanded the video look). There is no other miniDV set up I like.

Going to HD is, well, a step up, and productions are demanding that kind of resolution and quality. It's the obvious move. But again, with any of the HD tests and shoots I've done, I've always come away with not loving the "crisp" image. It's still video. Even at 24p.

So again, I turn to what I like, shallow depth of field. Again, that's just my preference. Every gig I've shot, has benefited from it, people have been floored at the quality and beauty of the images.

Charles, I'll be down in LA sometime soon for some HD testing. I'd be happy to bring my rig down if you want to have a real look see. Or, I'll actually have some sort of reel in the next few months (finally) and I'll post that on my site.

P.S. it was nice to finally meet you at NAB.

Richard Sanford · May 19th, 2003, 11:58 PM

Charles, You mentioned "breathing" in still camera lenses as a detriment to their use in a motion picture situation. Could you
explain a bit about how this artifact happens and how the
design of a motion picture lens improves this situation. Thanks

Charles Papert · May 20th, 2003, 01:34 PM

Sure, Richard, I'll give it a try...

When you turn the focus ring on a still camera lens, you may see a slight zoom in the size of the image. This is not considered a problem for still photography, but obviously that is a detriment for motion picture work. This is the phenmenon known as "breathing". Many video lenses suffer from this, as well as older cine zooms. In recent years computer-aided design has allowed for very sophisticated systems with multiple glass elements moving in precise formations to combat the problem. Naturally, this is expensive, and part of the reason why a good cine prime lens costs $10,000 and up.

Bradley Thomas · May 20th, 2003, 05:31 PM

I remember seeing a post with something like this before in the DVX100 forum.

http://owyheesound.com/Motion_Pictur.../dv-scope.html

This whole homemade mini35 stuff has me interested.

Agus Casse · November 13th, 2003, 01:29 AM

Ok, i am making some test with some 50mm lenses... now... i heard that you can make a ground glass from one of those fake cds that comes in the 50pcs packs... but how can i make one face translucent ?

Cosmin Rotaru · November 13th, 2003, 04:27 AM

Hi Agus.
I mentioned the fake CD. I was doing some tests and it looked OK. With the CD spinning...
You don't do anything with the fake CD to make it translucent. They come in two models: some of them are just clear plastic. But the ones I was talking about have one side exactly like a ground glass... So, look for them when you buy writable CDs! :-) You could buy a 50pcs box, throw the CDs, get the fake CD and walk out of the store! :-)

Ignacio Rodriguez · November 13th, 2003, 08:13 AM

How about paper? Here we have a kind of paper known as 'diamond paper' which is like that semi trasnparent scotch tape. Don't know what it is called in other parts of the world. You can get it here in most graphic design or art shops, were you would buy other kinds of paper, aerographs, technical drawing pens and the like.

May 17th, 2003, 05:29 PM	#31
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	Charles: A very enlightened view as always. BUT I'd have to say that I am way too happy with my mini35 for words. Yes, it has its own operating quirks, but nothing an experienced and willing DP couldn't work with. It is a fanciful notion to "rephotograph" an image off of a piece of spinning ground glass. Crazy for sure. Though, with the right lenses your image resolution will be BETTER than any other lens you can plop onto the XL1. Don't fear the technology ;) I will always want to shoot with the mini35 over the vanilla XL1 (or even the DVX100) in almost EVERY instance (unless, of course, the project demanded the video look). There is no other miniDV set up I like. Going to HD is, well, a step up, and productions are demanding that kind of resolution and quality. It's the obvious move. But again, with any of the HD tests and shoots I've done, I've always come away with not loving the "crisp" image. It's still video. Even at 24p. So again, I turn to what I like, shallow depth of field. Again, that's just my preference. Every gig I've shot, has benefited from it, people have been floored at the quality and beauty of the images. Charles, I'll be down in LA sometime soon for some HD testing. I'd be happy to bring my rig down if you want to have a real look see. Or, I'll actually have some sort of reel in the next few months (finally) and I'll post that on my site. P.S. it was nice to finally meet you at NAB. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

May 19th, 2003, 11:58 PM	#32
Richard Sanford New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA. Posts: 5	"breathing" in still camera lenses Charles, You mentioned "breathing" in still camera lenses as a detriment to their use in a motion picture situation. Could you explain a bit about how this artifact happens and how the design of a motion picture lens improves this situation. Thanks

May 20th, 2003, 01:34 PM	#33
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Sure, Richard, I'll give it a try... When you turn the focus ring on a still camera lens, you may see a slight zoom in the size of the image. This is not considered a problem for still photography, but obviously that is a detriment for motion picture work. This is the phenmenon known as "breathing". Many video lenses suffer from this, as well as older cine zooms. In recent years computer-aided design has allowed for very sophisticated systems with multiple glass elements moving in precise formations to combat the problem. Naturally, this is expensive, and part of the reason why a good cine prime lens costs $10,000 and up. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

November 13th, 2003, 04:27 AM	#36
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	Hi Agus. I mentioned the fake CD. I was doing some tests and it looked OK. With the CD spinning... You don't do anything with the fake CD to make it translucent. They come in two models: some of them are just clear plastic. But the ones I was talking about have one side exactly like a ground glass... So, look for them when you buy writable CDs! :-) You could buy a 50pcs box, throw the CDs, get the fake CD and walk out of the store! :-) __________________ Cosmin Rotaru

November 13th, 2003, 08:13 AM	#37
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	How about paper? Here we have a kind of paper known as 'diamond paper' which is like that semi trasnparent scotch tape. Don't know what it is called in other parts of the world. You can get it here in most graphic design or art shops, were you would buy other kinds of paper, aerographs, technical drawing pens and the like. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

May 20th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#34
Bradley Thomas Tourist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fort Meade, Maryland Posts: 4	I remember seeing a post with something like this before in the DVX100 forum. http://owyheesound.com/Motion_Pictur.../dv-scope.html This whole homemade mini35 stuff has me interested.

November 13th, 2003, 01:29 AM	#35
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	Ok, i am making some test with some 50mm lenses... now... i heard that you can make a ground glass from one of those fake cds that comes in the 50pcs packs... but how can i make one face translucent ?