You may begin laughter now. at DVinfo.net

Alex Sprinkle · August 2nd, 2006, 05:54 PM

Alright, anything I know about the cameras I'm using (which is little enough as it is), has just been figured out on my own guesswork. Though, i hear (see) you guys throwing around terms like "60i" and "24p" and all the numbers in between. I have no clue what this means or how to do it.

Also, when I'm editing footage in FCP, and I slow it down, it gets kinda fuzzy. Why does it lose quality?

Anthony Bristol · August 3rd, 2006, 04:06 AM

Hi Alex, no need to be embarassed about not understanding a few video terms. It takes some reading to understand interlacing (eg 60i - NTSC interlaced footage at 60 FIELDS [2 halves of the image shot and merged, our eyes can't see this trick] per second) and progressive video (24p - 24 being the traditional rate film is shot at in Frames Per Second [FPS] and the p means progressive, each frame being whole, like a still camera.

Read here http://neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html to understand how interlacing works.

What's you understand interlacing I believe the merits and attributes of progressive video will become clear.

Enjoy your journey :)

Alex Sprinkle · August 3rd, 2006, 04:29 PM

Wow, they were really pushing that VirtualDub thing, huh? Know anything about that?

That page helped, thans! Though, I must say I'm still confused about the whole thing. Why are there different methods? Why can't one method work on both computer and tv?

Adam Keen · August 3rd, 2006, 05:43 PM

Check out http://www.100fps.com/ for some good info on deinterlacing.

TVs used an interlaced signal because of bandwidth limitations for image size and frame rate.

Alex Sprinkle · August 3rd, 2006, 06:38 PM

Wow ... that looks amazing! So how do I do this on a Mac? Those were all PC based examples to avi, and Virtualdub is PC based, too. Is there a FCP plug in that does this for you? Why is this so complicated?

Chris Forbes · August 3rd, 2006, 06:49 PM

In FCP there is a deinterlace filter. But it is best to shoot with the end in mind if you can.

Alex Sprinkle · August 3rd, 2006, 08:21 PM

"With the end in mind"? What do you mean?

Nate Fields · August 12th, 2006, 11:44 AM

what is the highest frame rate possible?

Frank Hool · August 13th, 2006, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Sprinkle

Wow, they were really pushing that VirtualDub thing, huh? Know anything about that?

virtual dub is just good and free tool, which helps to explain such things. Because just if You have pc, then it's very easy to have vdub. I'm sure theres nothing You can't do with mac using any other tool.

Dylan Pank · August 17th, 2006, 05:04 AM

JES De-interlacer http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html is a great tool for Mac for this sort of thing. It's free. I haven't tried version 3.0 yet, but have been satisfied with 2.7.4, It doesn't handle batch processing very well, and the interrface is a little clunky, but the image quality of the results is very good. There's also MPEG Streamclip, which has much better batch tools and is a bit more user friendly, though I find the quality of the de-interlacing isn't as good.

There's nothing for Mac that compares to VirtualDub unfortunately. It's a brilliant programme, allowing you to import, crop, rescale, add multiple filters (including de-interlacing), adjust sound, frame rate and encode to a number of avi-compatible codecs (but not MPEG2 unfortunately) all in a single pass.

Rob Lohman · August 17th, 2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Fields

what is the highest frame rate possible?

234845723612393457234 fps (frames per second) is the absolute maximum
before the universe starts to collapse on itself, and we don't want that to
happen! However, there is some theory that they are working to enhance
this to 3958345923492349235434593459345 fps in Eureka :)

Sorry... couldn't resist. There is no maximum frame rate although there are
frame rate standards (50 fields / 25 frames per second for PAL and 60 fields /
30 [actually 59.94 & 29.97] frames per second for NTSC) and different file
formats like AVI & MOV (QuickTime) have maximum frame rates.

Then there are also limits on how fast a computer could play back a movie
(and how often your screen updates) etc.

So did you want to know what the standard frame rates are, or?

The 2 TV standard are listed above. Film is 24 fps or sometimes 23.976 fps
in the digital video world.

Graeme Nattress also has some excellent de-interlace and other plugins
for your Mac. To see his algorithms in action:

http://www.nattress.com/Products/Fin...SmartDeint.htm

That's for FinalTouch, but the same filter is also available for FCP:

http://www.nattress.com/Products/fil...ilmeffects.htm

Carl Jakobsson · September 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM

The best way, generally, to slow down footage is to deinterlace it first. Then use After Effects 7 Pro to "retime" it. The retimer is intelligent and calculate totally new frames by comparing the differences between them. Note that earlier versions retimer isn't intelligent.

The standard and classic procedure of slowing down is to duplicate the frames. At half speed (50%=1/2) every frame is shown 2 times, at fifth speed (20%=1/5) 5 times etc. Therefore you should avoid using values like 43% of speed (3/7) etc. Hope you get it.

The most common solution when using those odd values that Adobe Premiere uses is to blend fields, which isn't a good option. You're most likely to get the results you described by using frame blending and odd values.

Shortly; deinterlace then slow down using good values or retime the clip in AE 7.

By the way, I've found a killer-deinterlacing script for Avisynth (PC only) that does the best deinterlacing I've ever seen. So I transfer clips from my Mac to PC for deinterlacing and then back again...

August 2nd, 2006, 05:54 PM	#1
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	You may begin laughter now. Alright, anything I know about the cameras I'm using (which is little enough as it is), has just been figured out on my own guesswork. Though, i hear (see) you guys throwing around terms like "60i" and "24p" and all the numbers in between. I have no clue what this means or how to do it. Also, when I'm editing footage in FCP, and I slow it down, it gets kinda fuzzy. Why does it lose quality?

August 3rd, 2006, 06:49 PM	#6
Chris Forbes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Ut Posts: 155	Deinterlace In FCP there is a deinterlace filter. But it is best to shoot with the end in mind if you can.

September 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM	#12
Carl Jakobsson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 122	The best way, generally, to slow down footage is to deinterlace it first. Then use After Effects 7 Pro to "retime" it. The retimer is intelligent and calculate totally new frames by comparing the differences between them. Note that earlier versions retimer isn't intelligent. The standard and classic procedure of slowing down is to duplicate the frames. At half speed (50%=1/2) every frame is shown 2 times, at fifth speed (20%=1/5) 5 times etc. Therefore you should avoid using values like 43% of speed (3/7) etc. Hope you get it. The most common solution when using those odd values that Adobe Premiere uses is to blend fields, which isn't a good option. You're most likely to get the results you described by using frame blending and odd values. Shortly; deinterlace then slow down using good values or retime the clip in AE 7. By the way, I've found a killer-deinterlacing script for Avisynth (PC only) that does the best deinterlacing I've ever seen. So I transfer clips from my Mac to PC for deinterlacing and then back again... __________________ http://www.nattvard.com

August 3rd, 2006, 04:06 AM	#2
Anthony Bristol Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 38	Hi Alex, no need to be embarassed about not understanding a few video terms. It takes some reading to understand interlacing (eg 60i - NTSC interlaced footage at 60 FIELDS [2 halves of the image shot and merged, our eyes can't see this trick] per second) and progressive video (24p - 24 being the traditional rate film is shot at in Frames Per Second [FPS] and the p means progressive, each frame being whole, like a still camera. Read here http://neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html to understand how interlacing works. What's you understand interlacing I believe the merits and attributes of progressive video will become clear. Enjoy your journey :)

August 3rd, 2006, 04:29 PM	#3
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	Wow, they were really pushing that VirtualDub thing, huh? Know anything about that? That page helped, thans! Though, I must say I'm still confused about the whole thing. Why are there different methods? Why can't one method work on both computer and tv?

August 3rd, 2006, 05:43 PM	#4
Adam Keen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 49	Check out http://www.100fps.com/ for some good info on deinterlacing. TVs used an interlaced signal because of bandwidth limitations for image size and frame rate.

August 3rd, 2006, 06:38 PM	#5
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	Wow ... that looks amazing! So how do I do this on a Mac? Those were all PC based examples to avi, and Virtualdub is PC based, too. Is there a FCP plug in that does this for you? Why is this so complicated?

August 3rd, 2006, 08:21 PM	#7
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	"With the end in mind"? What do you mean?

August 12th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#8
Nate Fields Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Markleville IN Posts: 58	what is the highest frame rate possible?

August 17th, 2006, 05:04 AM	#10
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	JES De-interlacer http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html is a great tool for Mac for this sort of thing. It's free. I haven't tried version 3.0 yet, but have been satisfied with 2.7.4, It doesn't handle batch processing very well, and the interrface is a little clunky, but the image quality of the results is very good. There's also MPEG Streamclip, which has much better batch tools and is a bit more user friendly, though I find the quality of the de-interlacing isn't as good. There's nothing for Mac that compares to VirtualDub unfortunately. It's a brilliant programme, allowing you to import, crop, rescale, add multiple filters (including de-interlacing), adjust sound, frame rate and encode to a number of avi-compatible codecs (but not MPEG2 unfortunately) all in a single pass.