Question about adding CGI and visual effects to your 60i to 24p footage. at DVinfo.net

James A. Davis · January 16th, 2006, 09:27 PM

I'm using DV filmmaker for the 60i to 24p conversion. My film has CGI and visual effects and will be transferred to film. How do I output for the special effects additions. Do I add the effects to the original 60i footage? Do I convert it at STRAIGHT 24P without any pulldown and add the effects? Or do I add the 2:3:3:2 pulldown to the footage and THEN add the effects?

Don Donatello · January 17th, 2006, 12:51 AM

if you are doing the 24p conversion ..and you are delivering the project to your tape to film house on hard drive = you can deliver 24p files .. then i would leave CGI 24p ..
render you project in pieces ( number them & CGI clips ) and be sure to include numbers on the CGI where they should go as in all sequencial numbers ...

if you need to composite the CGI with 60i clips then convert the 60i sections to 24p and composite the 24p CGI and render out 24p ...

check with your tape to film house as most want it in pieces ( approx 18-20 min max sections) .. you can also check with them on the CGI ..

James A. Davis · January 17th, 2006, 12:40 PM

Are you saying 24p with no pulldown at all? And also render each effect at 24P seperately on each frame?

Don Donatello · January 17th, 2006, 11:20 PM

if you are shooting for a film transfer then it's 24p all the way ...more then likely your transfer house will prefer 4:2:2 files vs 4:1:1 ..so if you do have a 4:2:2 master and you don't make it to film then after you have you finished 4:2:2 24p files .. take that finished 24p and render out a 24p + pull down for tape ..

James A. Davis · January 18th, 2006, 12:45 PM

One more question though. When I played some of my footage (with 3:2 pulldown) on my widescreen tv (and the footage was cropped so it fit the tv) the image wasn't that clear. If you have enough money will is there a place that will convert your footage into HDef. I know if wouldn't be true high def but they can make it look better for High Def TV's right?

Nick Jushchyshyn · January 18th, 2006, 01:00 PM

If you've shot 60i and plan to do CGI effects for 24p, you should consider performing the 60i->24p conversion at the front of the pipeline. Then you have all your plates in 24p, and you can handle everything uniformly through the entire pipeline including matchmoving, animation and compositing.

If you want to convert to hi-def, I would also recommend making this conversion PRIOR to adding effects. The thing about CG renders and digital mattes and other digital effects is that the focus, color space and noise and such are subtly different that the original plates.

You see this all the time in bad/cheap composits in some productions, but even if your effects crew is really good and gets the shots looking great on SD source, color grading and other attempts at enhancing finished shots in the up-conversion to HD can bring out the differences between live and CG assets, wasting all that fine work to get comps to match so well in the first place.

For a filmout, you may want to consider a final render to Cineon, OpenEXR or even just TIFF or TGA image sequences rather than printing to a SD tape.

January 16th, 2006, 09:27 PM	#1
James A. Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 90	Question about adding CGI and visual effects to your 60i to 24p footage. I'm using DV filmmaker for the 60i to 24p conversion. My film has CGI and visual effects and will be transferred to film. How do I output for the special effects additions. Do I add the effects to the original 60i footage? Do I convert it at STRAIGHT 24P without any pulldown and add the effects? Or do I add the 2:3:3:2 pulldown to the footage and THEN add the effects?

January 17th, 2006, 12:40 PM	#3
James A. Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 90	What if we decide to go straight to DVD? Is there a way to compromise. Are you saying 24p with no pulldown at all? And also render each effect at 24P seperately on each frame?

January 18th, 2006, 12:45 PM	#5
James A. Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 90	Thanx Don One more question though. When I played some of my footage (with 3:2 pulldown) on my widescreen tv (and the footage was cropped so it fit the tv) the image wasn't that clear. If you have enough money will is there a place that will convert your footage into HDef. I know if wouldn't be true high def but they can make it look better for High Def TV's right?

January 18th, 2006, 01:00 PM	#6
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	If you've shot 60i and plan to do CGI effects for 24p, you should consider performing the 60i->24p conversion at the front of the pipeline. Then you have all your plates in 24p, and you can handle everything uniformly through the entire pipeline including matchmoving, animation and compositing. If you want to convert to hi-def, I would also recommend making this conversion PRIOR to adding effects. The thing about CG renders and digital mattes and other digital effects is that the focus, color space and noise and such are subtly different that the original plates. You see this all the time in bad/cheap composits in some productions, but even if your effects crew is really good and gets the shots looking great on SD source, color grading and other attempts at enhancing finished shots in the up-conversion to HD can bring out the differences between live and CG assets, wasting all that fine work to get comps to match so well in the first place. For a filmout, you may want to consider a final render to Cineon, OpenEXR or even just TIFF or TGA image sequences rather than printing to a SD tape. __________________ Nick Jushchyshyn Matchmoving, Compositing, TD imdb

January 17th, 2006, 12:51 AM	#2
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	if you are doing the 24p conversion ..and you are delivering the project to your tape to film house on hard drive = you can deliver 24p files .. then i would leave CGI 24p .. render you project in pieces ( number them & CGI clips ) and be sure to include numbers on the CGI where they should go as in all sequencial numbers ... if you need to composite the CGI with 60i clips then convert the 60i sections to 24p and composite the 24p CGI and render out 24p ... check with your tape to film house as most want it in pieces ( approx 18-20 min max sections) .. you can also check with them on the CGI ..

January 17th, 2006, 11:20 PM	#4
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	if you are shooting for a film transfer then it's 24p all the way ...more then likely your transfer house will prefer 4:2:2 files vs 4:1:1 ..so if you do have a 4:2:2 master and you don't make it to film then after you have you finished 4:2:2 24p files .. take that finished 24p and render out a 24p + pull down for tape ..