Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?

Ryan Elder · January 2nd, 2021, 06:20 PM

Oh okay, I was thinking blue or green, but blue has this cold gritty feel, and thought maybe it would be better. What color were you thinking?

Patrick Tracy · January 2nd, 2021, 08:06 PM

In audio, there's a principle where you address problems as early in the chain as possible. Don't depend on mastering to fix things that can be fixed in mixing. Don't expect mixing to solve problems with tracking or arrangement. It's preferable to use a better guitar than to expect an expensive mic or aggressive processing to fix a cheap guitar's sound. Fix acoustic issues acoustically before the sound hits the mic rather than electronically. Get as much sorted out in pre-production as possible so you don't have to write and arrange in the studio or fix things in post. Preparing usually takes less effort than repairing.

Ryan Elder · January 2nd, 2021, 08:43 PM

Oh okay thanks. I know what you mean but the locations cannot be painted though. Plus in these tutorials they show clips from movies where the walls or backgrounds were a different color originally, so isn't it normal to color walls in post, if they cannot paint them since other movies do it in post?

Brian Drysdale · January 3rd, 2021, 02:32 AM

You can if you want, but it depends on how stylized your story is to be told.

The final season of the French TV cop series "Spiral" has a fair amount of colour correction.

.

However, the earlier seasons, with a lighter touch on the colours, look a lot gritter.

Ryan Elder · January 3rd, 2021, 03:03 AM

Oh okay, thanks, I don't think I would have a grade that is heavy beyond that I don't think. I just want to be able to control the colors of things like walls in post, if possible.

They say it's good to separate the skin tones to give the audience separation from the background. But some movies color grade the skin so it's more blue or cold looking, along with the background. Here is a clip from The French Connection for example:

They give it a more blue look, but they do not bother to separate the skin tones. They own it. Unless seperating the skin tones to create contrast from the background is still better? But I thought I would try the 3 color rule as demonstrated in the OP, but if I choose brown, blue, and red as my colors, is it really that much of a fad now? I mean what colors aren't fads to choose?

Josh Bass · January 3rd, 2021, 03:12 AM

Ryan, you know that movie is so old that it was way before digital color correction, right? They only had much simpler photochemical timing, which makes much broader adjustments on the entire image. No qualifiers, masks etc. There was no way TO separate the skin tones back then unless you hand colored it frame by frame or something.

Brian Drysdale · January 3rd, 2021, 03:15 AM

You had to do it with the lighting in those days.

The "French Connection" is more realistic than the look that Ryan is going after.

Paul R Johnson · January 3rd, 2021, 03:33 AM

Patrick’s analogy with audio is my favourite comment. If the original is poor a grade wont make it better. Surely it’s polish and feel, not an excuse for not being able to paint a wall. Big budget movies could have painted their sets properly, surely grading is supposed to be subtle or a special effect, not an excuse for a poor location.

Amateur productions always seem to put time and effort into the wrong areas. Surely the story and the actors are critical to success. Rotten Tomatos don’t base their opinions on a movies grade fir goodness sake. People don’t care about grading, and if they do notice it, it was done badly.

Brian Drysdale · January 3rd, 2021, 04:57 AM

A competent art director will come up with a solution if you can't paint the original walls.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 3rd, 2021, 08:39 AM

We should have copy/paste jar that Ryan needs to forfeit a quarter every time he references a movie he wants to copy despite not knowing how it was done or having the means to do it.

This topic looks to be a continuation of a thread he started May of 2019! Spoiler alert he wants to color the walls at locations won’t allow him to paint them.
https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv...5=#post1950529
Can you believe obsessing over the color of walls for two years!

Josh Bass · January 3rd, 2021, 11:28 AM

at this point i can

Ryan Elder · January 3rd, 2021, 11:57 AM

Yes I know The French Connection came out at a time when you couldn't separate the skin tones, I was just using it as an example, of a movie with blu-ish color grading, without skin tone separation.

But as for coloring walls in locations, the tutorials show this being done as if it's normal to color the walls in post, if you can't during shooting. Is it not normal then?

Paul R Johnson · January 3rd, 2021, 12:21 PM

No they don't! They show it can be done, they show you how to do it, but it is NOT normal. Normal is proper planning so9 you don't have to fix things - like was explained in the audio analogy.

If you want blue walls, it's part of the planning. Grading in the really detailed examples on Youtube often takes two or three views because it is subtle - it's artistic and it's totally transparent. You wish to use the technology to change fundamentals, and the more change you put in, the more chance of revealing it and of course your expertise really defines the limits.

Just because something is possible does not mean it is a standard procedure to use every time. Maybe you should tint all the lights towards your wanted colour and then repair the blue flesh tone - that could be simpler. It does occur to me that the cost of paint could be cheaper. Paint the room what colour you want, and promise to repaint it back at the end of the shoot - the location owner even gets a free makeover. A few tins of paint is probably cheaper in time and effort.

Do not watch things on Youtube and take them as fact. So much is distorted or somebody's own slightly skewed perspective of our industry. Sometimes, they are clever people but out of touch.

Ryan Elder · January 3rd, 2021, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

No they don't! They show it can be done, they show you how to do it, but it is NOT normal. Normal is proper planning so9 you don't have to fix things - like was explained in the audio analogy.

If you want blue walls, it's part of the planning. Grading in the really detailed examples on Youtube often takes two or three views because it is subtle - it's artistic and it's totally transparent. You wish to use the technology to change fundamentals, and the more change you put in, the more chance of revealing it and of course your expertise really defines the limits.

Just because something is possible does not mean it is a standard procedure to use every time. Maybe you should tint all the lights towards your wanted colour and then repair the blue flesh tone - that could be simpler. It does occur to me that the cost of paint could be cheaper. Paint the room what colour you want, and promise to repaint it back at the end of the shoot - the location owner even gets a free makeover. A few tins of paint is probably cheaper in time and effort.

Do not watch things on Youtube and take them as fact. So much is distorted or somebody's own slightly skewed perspective of our industry. Sometimes, they are clever people but out of touch.

Oh okay, but I did offer to pain locations before, and they said no. But in this tutorial, they show what the color looks like in Mission: Impossible: Ghost Protocol, at 1:20 into the clip:

Ghost Protocol was actually graded blue/teal, in post, with the skin tones separated. Not even they chose to have the actors wear blue clothes, or color the street they are walking on blue, during production. This was all done in post, so I thought it was normal, since a movie like that even does it in post, at least according to the tutorial.

Greg Smith · January 3rd, 2021, 01:18 PM

What is "normal" (and it isn't, really) for a film with a $140 million budget and the best Hollywood crew that money can buy is of virtually no relevance to what you or I can accomplish working independently.

Focus, man. Know and respect your limits. Get the story right, work with the actors to make it feel sincere and convincing, and shoot it so you have enough coverage of each scene. Aim for realism but don't obsess over the colors of the walls or the tone of the flutes at this point. Keep special effects to a minimum.

January 2nd, 2021, 06:20 PM	#46
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Oh okay, I was thinking blue or green, but blue has this cold gritty feel, and thought maybe it would be better. What color were you thinking?

January 2nd, 2021, 08:06 PM	#47
Patrick Tracy Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Lafayette, Colorado Posts: 167	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? In audio, there's a principle where you address problems as early in the chain as possible. Don't depend on mastering to fix things that can be fixed in mixing. Don't expect mixing to solve problems with tracking or arrangement. It's preferable to use a better guitar than to expect an expensive mic or aggressive processing to fix a cheap guitar's sound. Fix acoustic issues acoustically before the sound hits the mic rather than electronically. Get as much sorted out in pre-production as possible so you don't have to write and arrange in the studio or fix things in post. Preparing usually takes less effort than repairing. __________________ Boulder Sound Guy website Boulder Sound Guy on YouTube

January 2nd, 2021, 08:43 PM	#48
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Oh okay thanks. I know what you mean but the locations cannot be painted though. Plus in these tutorials they show clips from movies where the walls or backgrounds were a different color originally, so isn't it normal to color walls in post, if they cannot paint them since other movies do it in post?

January 3rd, 2021, 02:32 AM	#49
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? You can if you want, but it depends on how stylized your story is to be told. The final season of the French TV cop series "Spiral" has a fair amount of colour correction. Spiral Season 8 (Official U.S. Trailer) - January 5 - YouTube . However, the earlier seasons, with a lighter touch on the colours, look a lot gritter.

January 3rd, 2021, 03:03 AM	#50
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Oh okay, thanks, I don't think I would have a grade that is heavy beyond that I don't think. I just want to be able to control the colors of things like walls in post, if possible. They say it's good to separate the skin tones to give the audience separation from the background. But some movies color grade the skin so it's more blue or cold looking, along with the background. Here is a clip from The French Connection for example: The French Connection Example - YouTube They give it a more blue look, but they do not bother to separate the skin tones. They own it. Unless seperating the skin tones to create contrast from the background is still better? But I thought I would try the 3 color rule as demonstrated in the OP, but if I choose brown, blue, and red as my colors, is it really that much of a fad now? I mean what colors aren't fads to choose?

January 3rd, 2021, 03:12 AM	#51
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Ryan, you know that movie is so old that it was way before digital color correction, right? They only had much simpler photochemical timing, which makes much broader adjustments on the entire image. No qualifiers, masks etc. There was no way TO separate the skin tones back then unless you hand colored it frame by frame or something. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 3rd, 2021, 03:15 AM	#52
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? You had to do it with the lighting in those days. The "French Connection" is more realistic than the look that Ryan is going after.

January 3rd, 2021, 03:33 AM	#53
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,046	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Patrick’s analogy with audio is my favourite comment. If the original is poor a grade wont make it better. Surely it’s polish and feel, not an excuse for not being able to paint a wall. Big budget movies could have painted their sets properly, surely grading is supposed to be subtle or a special effect, not an excuse for a poor location. Amateur productions always seem to put time and effort into the wrong areas. Surely the story and the actors are critical to success. Rotten Tomatos don’t base their opinions on a movies grade fir goodness sake. People don’t care about grading, and if they do notice it, it was done badly.

January 3rd, 2021, 04:57 AM	#54
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? A competent art director will come up with a solution if you can't paint the original walls.

January 3rd, 2021, 08:39 AM	#55
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? We should have copy/paste jar that Ryan needs to forfeit a quarter every time he references a movie he wants to copy despite not knowing how it was done or having the means to do it. This topic looks to be a continuation of a thread he started May of 2019! Spoiler alert he wants to color the walls at locations won’t allow him to paint them. https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv...5=#post1950529 Can you believe obsessing over the color of walls for two years! Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; January 3rd, 2021 at 12:10 PM.

January 3rd, 2021, 11:28 AM	#56
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? at this point i can __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 3rd, 2021, 11:57 AM	#57
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? Yes I know The French Connection came out at a time when you couldn't separate the skin tones, I was just using it as an example, of a movie with blu-ish color grading, without skin tone separation. But as for coloring walls in locations, the tutorials show this being done as if it's normal to color the walls in post, if you can't during shooting. Is it not normal then?

January 3rd, 2021, 12:21 PM	#58
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,046	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? No they don't! They show it can be done, they show you how to do it, but it is NOT normal. Normal is proper planning so9 you don't have to fix things - like was explained in the audio analogy. If you want blue walls, it's part of the planning. Grading in the really detailed examples on Youtube often takes two or three views because it is subtle - it's artistic and it's totally transparent. You wish to use the technology to change fundamentals, and the more change you put in, the more chance of revealing it and of course your expertise really defines the limits. Just because something is possible does not mean it is a standard procedure to use every time. Maybe you should tint all the lights towards your wanted colour and then repair the blue flesh tone - that could be simpler. It does occur to me that the cost of paint could be cheaper. Paint the room what colour you want, and promise to repaint it back at the end of the shoot - the location owner even gets a free makeover. A few tins of paint is probably cheaper in time and effort. Do not watch things on Youtube and take them as fact. So much is distorted or somebody's own slightly skewed perspective of our industry. Sometimes, they are clever people but out of touch.

January 3rd, 2021, 01:18 PM	#60
Greg Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 86	Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule? What is "normal" (and it isn't, really) for a film with a $140 million budget and the best Hollywood crew that money can buy is of virtually no relevance to what you or I can accomplish working independently. Focus, man. Know and respect your limits. Get the story right, work with the actors to make it feel sincere and convincing, and shoot it so you have enough coverage of each scene. Aim for realism but don't obsess over the colors of the walls or the tone of the flutes at this point. Keep special effects to a minimum.