How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography?

[Paul R Johnson]

Stereo recording is a subject that allows a listener to close their eyes and perceive a stereo field. As in you can point to where something is with varying degrees of accuracy. Your brain is able to determine two functions. Differences in level between left and right and differences in time. There are broadly two different techniques, but hundreds of subtle differences. A/B where microphones are spaced, so there is time and level differences between what they capture and X/Ywhere the microphone capsules are as close as possible and the only differences are in level, not time. The right technique for a given circumstance sounds real, but the wrong one sounds wrong and your brain views the scene and the sound and they fight. TV and movies usual cheat and recreate stereo field to suit the bigger screen and home viewing setups, hence why voice centre effects in stereo has become the norm.

It is usual to use coincident techniques not spaced, because you have more versatility and mono compatibility hence why X/Y and M/S are more common. Gunshots being impulse sounds respond badly to spaced microphones.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Should I record everything in stereo then, including the actors' dialogue?

But if two mics are both pointed at the same thing, such as the muzzle of the gun to record the gunshot, then most people cannot tell the difference if the mics are right next to each other, when pointed at the same source, right?

But right now I have two boom mics, but they are both mono. Should I trade them in for stereo condenser mics?

[Brian Drysdale]

No, you record the actors in mono. Any stereoscopic positioning will be created in post, although dialogue is commonly keep cental.

Stereo recording is usually only used for at atmosphere tracks. Effects are recorded in mono.

M/ S..is the usual method used by sound recordists. https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...ides-recording. In this case, the stereo part would come from the reverberation from the surrounding buildings, not the gunshots themselves. I imagine there was work done in post if they were going for that effect, since M/S offers flexibility. That will give them both the mono and stereo information.

You should read up on that, you'll need an additional mic for the side and a windshield for the double mic arrangement.

On one of my shorts we recorded a PA system in the middle of some buildings in order to catch the echos. The actor's voice was prerecorded and was feed into the PA speaker..

This is going over old ground, it was discussed in another thread. Reading some of the books on film sound recording techniques wouldn't go amiss and would act as a reference.

You still seem to be confusing plot with story, they;re different. Using set ups earlier will prepare the audience for the reveals, You seem you be looking for rules again, it depends on your characters and the actions they take that will create the reveals. Look at the first three Bourne films for reveals and how Bourne's need drives the three films.

[Paul R Johnson]

You really need to actually read people's posts. It seems you just cheery pick little bits of posts and remember a few facts and totally discount everything else. Recording dialogue is totally different to recording the sound of spaces. With speaking, the mic does not want to capture the background, so it follows the actors, but when you are recording BIG spaces, like maybe a shopping mall - the mic is FIXED and records the wide stereo field. On a football field, the same thing applies - a fixed stereo field, however, if you wanted to record a motorcycle entering right at speed, leaving the area left, you have a decision to make. You can record the motorcycle with a closer perspective, following it with a directed shotgun in mono, or you record the stereo image with the fixed pair of mics in X/Y or M/S. It's easy to pan mono right to left, but the fixed mics will also capture the doppler shift, making that more realistic.

[Josh Bass]

I mean, you guys remember there was a whole other thread that went on for pages about this?

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

You really need to actually read people's posts. It seems you just cheery pick little bits of posts and remember a few facts and totally discount everything else. Recording dialogue is totally different to recording the sound of spaces. With speaking, the mic does not want to capture the background, so it follows the actors, but when you are recording BIG spaces, like maybe a shopping mall - the mic is FIXED and records the wide stereo field. On a football field, the same thing applies - a fixed stereo field, however, if you wanted to record a motorcycle entering right at speed, leaving the area left, you have a decision to make. You can record the motorcycle with a closer perspective, following it with a directed shotgun in mono, or you record the stereo image with the fixed pair of mics in X/Y or M/S. It's easy to pan mono right to left, but the fixed mics will also capture the doppler shift, making that more realistic.

Oh okay thanks. Sorry if I wasn't remembering enough. Yes I remember the other thread about recording in the field. However, there is one thing I still do not understand. Let's say I record a motorcycle for example, going from right to left, with a stereo mic. There is no center channel. So later when I do the sound mixing in post, wouldn't I have to create the centre channel? for when the motorcycle goes into the center more so? And if I create this center channel in post, does recording with a stereo mic to make it seem more realistic, make a difference in that case?

What do you mean by 'doppler shift'?

But in the other thread it was also said not to bother to record in surround on while on set, and to just do the mixing in post, because recording in surround causes other problems. So if recording in surround on set causes problems, compared to mixing in post, wouldn't that apply to stereo as well in some cases, especially if there is no center channel on a stereo mic?

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

No, you record the actors in mono. Any stereoscopic positioning will be created in post, although dialogue is commonly keep cental.

Stereo recording is usually only used for at atmosphere tracks. Effects are recorded in mono.

M/ S..is the usual method used by sound recordists. https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...ides-recording. In this case, the stereo part would come from the reverberation from the surrounding buildings, not the gunshots themselves. I imagine there was work done in post if they were going for that effect, since M/S offers flexibility. That will give them both the mono and stereo information.

You should read up on that, you'll need an additional mic for the side and a windshield for the double mic arrangement.

On one of my shorts we recorded a PA system in the middle of some buildings in order to catch the echos. The actor's voice was prerecorded and was feed into the PA speaker..

This is going over old ground, it was discussed in another thread. Reading some of the books on film sound recording techniques wouldn't go amiss and would act as a reference.

You still seem to be confusing plot with story, they;re different. Using set ups earlier will prepare the audience for the reveals, You seem you be looking for rules again, it depends on your characters and the actions they take that will create the reveals. Look at the first three Bourne films for reveals and how Bourne's need drives the three films.

Oh okay thanks. But when recording atmosphere with a stereo mic, there is still no center channel in the mic. So do you create the center channel in post then? Yes when recording the gunshots on a mono mic, I did point the mic at different areas on different shots, to capture possible reverb sounds. But if I had more than one mic, or a stereo mic that would make it easier of course. It seems that most of the sound was coming from the gun itself though rather than any reverberation. Like the gunshots were overpowering any change of reverb being picked up I mean.

I also found that if you aim the mic at the back of the gun, it seems to capture more of a gunshot sound, compared to aiming at the muzzle. Unless I am doing it wrong.

Is 'plot point', the wrong term then, and I should just say reveal then? What if in a script the characters, have no reason to hold off on reveals though? It was said before that I give too many reveals in the story, too soon, but if the characters don't have a reason to hold off on them, wouldn't that make it more natural to the characters?

[Brian Drysdale]

Read the link for M/S, so that part makes sense.

This is going over old ground there are left, centre and right channels in release stereo sound tracks. Don't you remember a whole thread that went in circles discussing this? Even on standard stereo system, without the need for audio in the centre of a large screen, you can create a centre in the stereo image (assuming you've set up the speakers correctly) with L and R speakers.

In "Heat" they weren't working in the simplistic manner you do, They wanted the sound of the guns going off in an urban environment, where the echos are all part of the audio landscape

If you're serious in being a sound guy, buy the books on this subject.

You should rethink your script, reveals should be there when they move the story forward and takes you to new places, some of which may be dead ends. You should check out the French TV series "Spiral" for using reveals, because it has endless reveals because everything inter meshes like gears.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Read the link for M/S, so that part makes sense.

This is going over old ground there are left, centre and right channels in release stereo sound tracks. Don't you remember a whole thread that went in circles discussing this?

In "Heat" they weren't working in the simplistic manner you do, They wanted the sound of the guns going off in an urban environment, where the echos are all part of the audio landscape

If you're serious in being a sound guy, buy the books on this subject.

You should rethink your script, reveals should be there when they move the story forward and takes you to new places, some of which may be dead ends. You should check out the French TV series "Spiral" for using reveals, because it has endless reveals because everything inter meshes like gears.

Oh okay. Yes I remember that their are left, right and center channels, and that is why I bring it up, because stereo mics only have 2 channels, or so I thought. That's why I brought it up, because there will be no center channel. However the article says there there is a mid mic in M/S so I guess that means 3 mics then? But also, in the article it says you just need two mics earlier on, so that part is confusing for me. It says you need two mics, but then later it mentions a mid mic. Is that one of the two mics, or is that a separate mic all together?

However, after reading that article, if I am reading it correctly, what you are saying is that the M/S system will help fill a center channel basically from what the article says, and what you are saying?

For my script, I thought the reveals did move the story forward, and to new places, unless it doesn't?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

You take forever to do simple things, making them overly complex, ending up with a poor result.

In this case, a gun shot sound that matched the scene was called for. Instead of buying it, you insisted on to recording it yourself, despite being advised not to. You ended up with a sound everyone here predicted you would. You say even though it didn't turn out right it could have been used for the shoot out scene in Heat. Even if this was true, who cares because the whole point was to get a sound effect for a particular scene in your movie. Btw that scene is memorable because it's a shootout with assault rifles, in downtown LA, with crackling of gun fire reverberating of the buildings. Which is yet another example of you trying to copy out of context material from other movies.

You keep trying to record things either in stereo or surround sound when it shouldn't be despite being repeatedly advised not to. Who on earth would be concerned with the sound effects before the movie has been filmed and are still working on the script?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. When did I record things in stereo or surround though? I was told to record surround before but did not. I only have mono mics, so I cannot record surround or stereo so far.

[Brian Drysdale]

I know nothing about your script, nor do other people in this forum, so they can't comment on your reveals.

Stereo and surround was brought up in another of your threads. From what you're saying, you should just work in mono, rather than get involved in the complexities of a stereo or surround soundtrack. In this thread. it was brought up regarding the "Heat"soundtrack.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I can record stereo for atmosphere, if that's better. I was just doing recording different areas with the environment with one mic, and then mixing them together later, so I wouldn't have to buy a new mic. But also, if I do it all with the same mic, I don't have to worry about any mismatching sound I thought.

As for the story, it seems that some of the story points on here, gave the impression that they were not necessary because they will not pay off later. I think a couple of other readers get this impression at first as well, until later when they pay off. But how do I as the writer, communicate to the reader "Don't worry, these story points and reveals will all pay off later", rather than give the impression that some of them may be unnecessary and mislead?

[Brian Drysdale]

Watch "Back to the Future 1" for set ups and pay offs.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I have the first one and it's one my favorite movies. It was said on before that I shouldn't introduce a character on a phone call, and have that be their first scene normally, but in Back to the Future, Doc Brown's introduction is over the phone though, so why did they choose to do it that way, rather than an in person introduction?

[Paul R Johnson]

Blimey Ryan! Have you never played with 5:1 sound and actually listened to what is on each channel - this was the first thing I did with my first 5:1 product. Listen to see what information they carry. The centre channel is vitally important, because it is the cinema screen, No matter where in the auditorium you sit, the voices come from the middle of the scene. In years gone by, there would be a huge horn speaker that fired THROUGH the screen. The left and right tracks are for the components that need to be non central, or move. Music, like something we all know - let's pick Jaws. That low frequency DUM DUH sound. Pretty much equal between the speakers, so, like in home stereos it sounds like it comes from the middle, when it's really coming from L+R equally. So centre, but NOT the dedicated Vox track. The other parts of the music and probably some effects will come from the L and R channels. the two rear channels mainly have effects in them. Usually reverb, or other scene setting stuff like factory noises or rumbles.

That's your five channels. At the risk of saying it again - M/S is a stereo capable setup that allows width to be adjusted in the mix with no mono compatibility issues at all. one mic points forwards and captures the mono central sound - which can be used for all sorts of purposes, even straight dialogue. The other microphones concerntates on left and right with minimal capture forwards. The two things get blended using phase cancellation techniques and as their level increases, the stereo width increases. Quite a neat trick really, and it also means they can be built into similar zeppelin style windshields for use outdoors.

Last thing. Didn't they teach you about Doppler shift at school? As a sound source comes towards you, the wavefront compresses, giving a rise in pitch, as the object passes you the pitch lowers and as the wavefront is going away from you, the pitch is correspondingly lower. Police Sirens are the obvious one, although airplanes heading towards you and passing overhead also exhibit it.

You need to get firmly into your head the differences between dialogue and effects tracks. They do a very different job