Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Brian Drysdale]

Hand held is a standard technique in documentary and even drama, many of the top feature film directors use it. You're probably waving the camera all over the place, it's something you need to practice and you need a camera that's rigged for hand held shooting. DLSRs are pretty useless for this, you need a rig for them,

Small light video cameras often need the image stabiliser on the lens, because they don't have much mass or are poorly balanced or don't have enough support points on your body for good stability.

A documentary DP would be grabbing the shots while you're still thinking about them, 99% of the time, they are very much working without direction on the shots when following the action.

Trying for perfection won't work with documentaries, because you're dealing with real people who usually don't speak in neat sound bites. Let them express themselves and you can find unexpected gold.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Actually before when I tried handheld, I was holding the camera as still as possible. This is my theory though... I think the image stabilization was the thing that causing it to vibrate more, and make it worse though. I think the lens was vibrating to keep the image stable, which caused it to be less stable. Cause I actually had the camera on a gimbal and it's still vibrating like crazy before, and holding it quite still, so I wonder if it was the image stabilization doing that. Does that sound like it could be the problem, I was having with handheld?

[Brian Drysdale]

If shooting hand held you need to be relaxed, with slow breathing and your body balanced.

A gimbal isn't hand held, that's different and limiting in what you can do in a number of respects. If you were getting vibration with it I would check if it was correctly rigged.

Here are some tips for using a DSLR

Shaky Footage? How to get SMOOTH HANDHELD shots like a beast! - YouTube

[Paul R Johnson]

We're not seeing errors from lens stabilisation, we're just seeing real camera movement. The guys is framed niceley, then there's a jerk and he slides across the frame and slowly back. I actually thought it was on a really nasty head, and the friction suddenly gave and the pan bar pressure moved it. The reason shoulder mounted cameras work so well is because your shoulder takes the weight and your torso provides rotational smoothness. Downside is aches and pains, but the fitter you are, the longer you can maintain steadiness. DSLRs have issues with CoG. They are not in alignment with your spine. The camera weight is under muscle control. Add the gizmos to connect it to your shoulders, and the weight creeps up, perhaps making a different camera a better choice.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

If shooting hand held you need to be relaxed, with slow breathing and your body balanced.

A gimbal isn't hand held, that's different and limiting in what you can do in a number of respects. If you were getting vibration with it I would check if it was correctly rigged.

Here are some tips for using a DSLR

Lots of good tips in that video but there are many situations where handheld dslr shooting is problematic and hard to obtain the same quality of hand held seen on tv by those big shoulder eng cameras. His techniques lend themselves to short broll clips of 5 seconds.

Filming longer shots like interviews is harder. The camera has to be held at eye level away from your body to see the framing and if you need change any settings it messes up the shot. You seldom notice jerky movements while shooting, it’s only when you’re editing you see it. You can build a dslr shoulder rig with a follow focus controller. Although rigs have there own problems: expensive, time consuming setup, and cumbersome to transport.

For documentary like other work it’s about knowing when to use what technique ie tripod for interview, stabilizer for walk n talk, handheld for shorter sound bites or quick broll. Getting smooth hand held shots is one small technical aspect to shooting a successful documentary.

As far as vibrating Ryan is describing this happens with many photography lens with internal stabilization and fly by wire focus. The lens will “chatter” as the internal motors adjust the elements. This can be remedied by turning off stabilization and autofocus.

There are lot more opportunities for doing documentary/short interview format than featured films. It also doesn’t require the money and multitude of things go into making a feature. I’ve suggested this type of work to Ryan but he doesn’t want to do it because of the unpredictable nature of it...

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks, I tried a shoulder rig before, but perhaps the problem is, I need to relax more, in situations where I was a one man band, trying to get all the footage shot in a rapid amount of time.

The problem with a shoulder rig, for me, is that I am quite tall, so I have to walk with my knees quite bent if I want to track with it. I can try to get use to it though.

Another thing is, is that I was told before to keep the stabilization on if going handheld or using a shoulder rig. But now I am advised to leave it off, cause the stabilization may be causing shake. Which is better, when going handheld or shoulder rig then? On or off?

[Paul R Johnson]

You need to simply try both and pick the one that works best for the situation. Remember the long lens on a tripod that resisted smooth pans, because the internal optics fought against the start of the pan, held it then had to release causing big jerks. That's a case for turning it off. Hand held zoomed in means constant small movements so this would probably be best with it turned on. Experiment and learn. hand held groscopic stabilisers try to keep the lens heading fixed, but then those that give you a left and right pan can mean these pans get quite abrupt - you learn how they respond so you can operate them better.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Well I do the tripod shots of the fight first, and then do any handheld shots second with it turned on then I think, as long as they don't mind doing mover coverage shots.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Okay thanks, I tried a shoulder rig before, but perhaps the problem is, I need to relax more, in situations where I was a one man band, trying to get all the footage shot in a rapid amount of time.

The problem with a shoulder rig, for me, is that I am quite tall, so I have to walk with my knees quite bent if I want to track with it. I can try to get use to it though.

Another thing is, is that I was told before to keep the stabilization on if going handheld or using a shoulder rig. But now I am advised to leave it off, cause the stabilization may be causing shake. Which is better, when going handheld or shoulder rig then? On or off?

1. Shoulder rigs are not a cure all, they're only as good as the operator using them. They're best for holding a shot steady for a couple of minutes and are not meant to be used as gimbals.

2. There are rigs that allow you to position the camera down in front of your chest.

3. Whether you can use stabilization comes down to the design of the lens. I've used Sony G master lenses and they are smooth and silent.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but they used the shoulder rig type set up with the camera over the shoulder, in Saving Private Ryan, when the camera operator is doing a lot of walking and running around, right?

And perhaps I could invest in a gimbal, instead of always wanting to direct and have a separate gimbal operator, if that's better...

[Paul R Johnson]

When the incredibly experienced and proficient camera operator is running around would perhaps be more correct. I just don;t get it when you pluck these job roles out as if they are a proper thing - you want a camera person. You want them to do certain things. Somebody skilled needs to decide the most appropriate method to shoot the shot and select the support kit. You cannot micromanage projects like this when you have limited experience in almost every department. It's just a repeating theme.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh, was I micromanaging the gimbal operator before does it sound like? I just hired a gimbal operator in a previous project, cause I thought that a gimbal was the tool for the job. Or what was I doing that was micromanaging?

But when people ask me to do these types of videos, like the martial arts video or the nature video, they do not want to make for separate camera operator and want me to do that part myself as well.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I'm talking about shoulder rigs in the context of doc/interviews not feature films. Rigs in cinema are used for different reasons. What would be acceptable in a war scene wouldn't be ok in a walk n talk. In cinema you are adding hand held motion for effect. We've gone from how not to get shaky footage to how to get shaky footage? We started this thread about star filters and now where are we?

[Brian Drysdale]

When shooting hand held on docs you're not always moving around, often it's a static shot, however, with fast moving action you don't always have time to put up a tripod. A good camera operator, with a well balanced camera and a wider angle lens will be pretty steady on a static shot.

[Paul R Johnson]

What I meant by micromanaging is you as the director deciding what camera technique to use, rather than booking a camera specialist who will listen to you as director and then tell you what is best. Surely the person tasked with visual responsibility would decide if they wanted a certain bit of kit. You want the shot, you don't book a camera expert and tell them how to do their job. you want to do everything and just have lots of assistants. Pick the right people and let them get on with it.

Many of the people will be using you because you are cheap and do what they tell you. If they want the best product, then they also want the best people. Do not confuse being in demand with being good. You are a novice in virtually every role - you get the work for the wrong reasons. You need to find the area where you have real talent, and resist the rest, because you cannot do everything well.