Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Brian Drysdale]

If a gimbal were interchangeable with a dolly, don't you think that the major feature films would just get rid of their dollies? Producers love saving money.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah that makes sense, but who says that the moves I want to do are dolly moves? How do you decide what camera movements are dolly moves, compared to gimbal moves?

[Brian Drysdale]

Because your approach is more I can't afford a dolly, so a gimbal will do instead. You use longer lenses on a gimbal, which you seem to be unaware of being less steady,

[Ryan Elder]

Oh yes, there is that, but when you say the gimbal look is okay for looking handheld, is an 85 mm that bad though, if it just means the look, will look more handheld? Is handheld looking bad for some shots? It was said before that the gimbal looks more handheld, so if it does, than is using a wider lens for smoothness that big of deal, if the gimbal has a more handheld look anyway?

[Brian Drysdale]

A gimbal is supposed to do smooth moves, however. longer lenses are more demanding on the skills of the operator, especially in keeping a constant height over uneven ground,

Given how much dialogue, with (I assume) people sitting around, that you seem to be having in some scenes, a (proper) dolly would probably make more sense for these scenes.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. But what I mean is, is that if the longer lens, means there is a little more shake is that bad, especially since Greengrass for example, has more shake in his camera movements by comparison?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it.”

Honestly Ryan you want to do it how you want to. That’s understandable but stop asking for advice you’re unable/unwilling to take. You must drive everyone including us crazy asking questions about your movie every waking moment.

[Paul R Johnson]

I go away for a bit and the topic grows and grows.

The thing you are missing Ryan is that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between deliberate gimbal moves and sloppy camerawork. These movie clips that appear to be handheld - they're planned to look that way, so the audience accept the images because they do what your brain thinks they should. In the car on a bump road, it's a Star Trek bumpy scene - the camera is not just being 'pointed', it's following the plan.
It's perfectly possible to go from a static tripod shot watching a vehicle coming closer, then cutting to the bumpy internal shot. Then even back again - the solid steady shot works, the busy internal shot works - as the context is right. Convention says that if you don't have a tripod or other camera support for the outside shot, you MUST keep steady. Even tiny movements look like the runner got given the camera and messed up.

Can you hold a camera with a long lens steady in your hand? I can't, not for very long at least. Small moves left, right up or down are very obvious on long lenses. If you stuff the camera on the gimbal it's even heavier!!

I get a bit confused when you ask about doing this or that, and then you say - isn't that the DPs job? I forget if you are talking about Ryan doing things or Ryan getting others to do them?

I've been lucky enough to use lots of weird camera supports over the years, and in every single case, the smoothest shots come from the heaviest equipment - not always the most expensive mind. If you have a mid to heavy weight dolly on a hard studio floor or on track, then all your starts and stops are lovely looking. If you put a tripod on a rolling skid, then your starts and stops can jerk unless you take care. My GoPro gimbal definitely has a 'look' but it's smoothness is at the expense of controllability. If it wasn't for the wide angle lens, I'd never have anything framed properly. with an 85mm or longer lens you're going to need more continuous panning to keep it centred, and your long lens might be outside of its capabilities.

Why not describe the scene properly and give it to the DP and ask what grip kit they think would be best?

I revamped my music studio and I have a thick carpet in now - one of my cameras on a Vinten pnuematic per seems to live in there now - and the one thing it cannot do is move on carpet. Totally the wrong product.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay thanks. But what I mean is, is that if the longer lens, means there is a little more shake is that bad, especially since Greengrass for example, has more shake in his camera movements by comparison?

It's only bad if it doesn't work in the context of the shot. The problem seems to be that you're apparently unaware of it's affect and if it's appropriate. If you were you'd know if it works or not. so wouldn't be asking.

Kubrick used a long lens on a Steadicam in a battle scene in Full Metal Jacket. It's not as steady as other methods, but I suspect the audience wouldn't be aware, but it visual taps into the hand held long lens shots used by TV news camera people in wars and here he adds the extra element of movement of moving with the action. It's steadier than a hand held shot, yet not the same as dolly or techno crane.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I've seen the handheld look done when the camera is following people walking or running. However, when doing moves when the characters are still the camera is often, smooth. So I am wondering, if a longer lens, more handheld look, would be appropriate for camera moves when the character are still. That's what I was worried about.

[Paul R Johnson]

Gimbals work best with wide lenses, so why try to use a more difficult one - n' you use standard/ wide and move in closer? It would be much more stable.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh it was only for the close up shots, I where I want the camera to move that I would use a longer lens, to avoid barrel distortion.

For example there is a scene where two characters walk down a hallway and are talking. I could use the gimbal to move with them on a wide shot of both of them. But if I want a close up of each character as well, I would want to use a longer lens to avoid the distortion. So I would have to move with them, but maybe without a gimbal therefore, for the close ups...

[Paul R Johnson]

Where is this barrel distortion coming from? I only get it on one of my wide angles lenses, it only starts to look odd when using a wide-wide very close in. Surely you won't be this close. Can you not just use a normal lens?

[Ryan Elder]

Perhaps barrel distortion is not quite the right term but people's faces look more narrow on a wide lens and I just do not like the narrowness. I've tried both 85mm and 50mm in close ups on past projects and the 85mm shapes the face perfectly, of those two, I would say.

[Brian Drysdale]

I would regard the 85mm as a bit flat looking, especially in a moving shot like this. A 50mm looks better.

This is probably more a music video shot than a drama shot, since the background is usually a part of circular moves, rather than just a CU. It's something that works more often with a singer than a character in a story,

In the end, it all depends on the context of the shot within a scene.