Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Brian Drysdale · April 5th, 2020, 01:44 AM

You can discuss the look of the film, a good DP will do that, they'll also tell you what isn't going to work once you've established the look. Gordon Willis did this with Francis Ford Coppola on The Godfather during the filming..

Paul R Johnson · April 5th, 2020, 08:32 AM

How exactly will they do this, if the room doesn't allow it? Finding experts often just produces a simple answer "no, we can't do that"

EDIT

I spotted this video in another topic Ryan.

I've no idea of the thought process or technical aspects, but just nicely shot video, nicely edited video, with a sort of story. I suspect it was made because it could be made, with little real need, just a good idea - which was the kids.

Shot and edited then published. Why you don't do things like this is a mystery - you'd learn so much about telling stories.

Ryan Elder · April 5th, 2020, 11:40 AM

If the DP says no we cannot do that, then we can do something else instead. We would still try to get the look as best we could within the location available, wouldn't we? It's not going to look as good as a studio, but the DP would still try to get it as best they could, no?

Pete Cofrancesco · April 5th, 2020, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I spotted this video in another topic Ryan.
I've no idea of the thought process or technical aspects, but just nicely shot video, nicely edited video, with a sort of story. I suspect l

Shot and edited then published. Why you don't do things like this is a mystery - you'd learn so much about telling stories.

I’ve been addicted to Tiktok lately so many funny interesting videos shot with a phone. This is one of my recent favorites tells a story in like 30 seconds. And then we have Ryan planning years at home...

https://vm.tiktok.com/tC1nWh/

Ryan Elder · April 5th, 2020, 01:53 PM

When working with a DP, is it bad to give them examples from other movies though, just to help? What about when it comes to working with other department heads... When I worked with a composer before, I would give him examples of how I want the music to feel from other movies, but is it bad to do that, and I should describe the music I would like all verbally? I just thought that giving examples were good, but is that copying too much from other movies then, just by showing examples alone?

Brian Drysdale · April 5th, 2020, 04:56 PM

You can use examples from other films, but it's best to keep it general. For example, the director of a short I was DP on wanted to have it looking like Amélie and I managed to set up the camera for that look. However, you don't need to go through it shot by shot. You can also use paintings or other visuals as a general visual reference.

For music, putting in temp tracks is common during the edit, however, some composers don't want to hear them. There it's comes down to discussion, plus there's a wide range of music other than film music that can be used as a reference.

Ryan Elder · April 5th, 2020, 06:30 PM

Oh okay, I don't have temp tracks in my edits, but I just feel I can explain what I want better through visual or audio references from other examples.

There is another thing I was wondering about. Since I have had trouble controlling the colors of locations, not being able to repaint walls, or not being able to control colors of cars, outdoors, and people say they find colors of things in the background distracting... what if I colored a movie in monochrome color, like old silent films? Every scene is just one color tint then, so it doesn't matter if there are uncontrolled colors in the background because the audience will not see them then? Would monochrome color be a good idea therefore?

Brian Drysdale · April 6th, 2020, 12:55 AM

All this depends on if you're trying to make a pastiche of a silent film or a contemporary film. You just can't throw in a tinted look unless it's part of the overall telling of the story. Like "The Lighthouse" uses black and white.

Who are these "some people"? They seem to reoccur in all your threads.

If a location has an inappropriate colour, don't use it, you go around various locations to find the right one. I know that here the same farm house has been used on a number of films and it looks different in each film because of the art direction.

Ryan Elder · April 6th, 2020, 02:02 AM

Oh okay. It's a crime thriller set in a modern times city.

They are just people I have shown my work to, to get opinions. Sometimes I am forced to use a location that may not have something ideal about it though. But then again I could try to change the distracting color only in post, if a color grading program can do it, without creating much noise issues.

Or maybe better, what we could do is light the locations so there is light on the actors, but try to avoid lighting the background a lot, if that's best.

Brian Drysdale · April 6th, 2020, 02:39 AM

You should be aware of the background when you're filming, if it's distracting you should be aware of it at the time, you shouldn't need other people to tell you.

You can rearrange the furniture and/or bring your own furnishings to avoid an inappropriate background.

Lighting can be used to reduce the viewer's eye being attracted to the background and/or you can use a shallower DOF to reduce the background detail. However, the method used must fit in with the overall look of the film.

Ryan Elder · April 6th, 2020, 10:48 AM

Okay thanks. I don't think that shallower DOF is an option for the master shots, unless it's okay to rack focus a lot between a group of actors, but not sure if the viewer will mind that or not.

Brian Drysdale · April 6th, 2020, 10:55 AM

It's done all the time. I think this has already been covered in another thread.

Ryan Elder · April 6th, 2020, 11:06 AM

Okay thanks, it's just when I see the master shot in a movie, everyone is in focus, and I don't ever recall seeing a movie with rack focusing in a master shot. So as long as it's acceptable, or I am not doing something too weird.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 6th, 2020, 11:34 AM

I saw this bhs from a movie. Look all the equipment and they even have big blue screen bkgd.
https://vm.tiktok.com/tpuNMe/

Brian Drysdale · April 6th, 2020, 11:42 AM

If it's a shorter focal length lens you may not be aware of any focus adjustments, especially if you're not looking for them.

If you're worried about the background, you'd be using a slightly longer focal length and this is where a dolly comes in for your camera moves.

April 5th, 2020, 01:44 AM	#961
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? You can discuss the look of the film, a good DP will do that, they'll also tell you what isn't going to work once you've established the look. Gordon Willis did this with Francis Ford Coppola on The Godfather during the filming..

April 5th, 2020, 08:32 AM	#962
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? How exactly will they do this, if the room doesn't allow it? Finding experts often just produces a simple answer "no, we can't do that" EDIT I spotted this video in another topic Ryan. YouTube (Short URL) I've no idea of the thought process or technical aspects, but just nicely shot video, nicely edited video, with a sort of story. I suspect it was made because it could be made, with little real need, just a good idea - which was the kids. Shot and edited then published. Why you don't do things like this is a mystery - you'd learn so much about telling stories.

April 5th, 2020, 11:40 AM	#963
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? If the DP says no we cannot do that, then we can do something else instead. We would still try to get the look as best we could within the location available, wouldn't we? It's not going to look as good as a studio, but the DP would still try to get it as best they could, no?

April 5th, 2020, 01:53 PM	#965
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? When working with a DP, is it bad to give them examples from other movies though, just to help? What about when it comes to working with other department heads... When I worked with a composer before, I would give him examples of how I want the music to feel from other movies, but is it bad to do that, and I should describe the music I would like all verbally? I just thought that giving examples were good, but is that copying too much from other movies then, just by showing examples alone? Last edited by Ryan Elder; April 5th, 2020 at 02:53 PM.

April 5th, 2020, 04:56 PM	#966
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? You can use examples from other films, but it's best to keep it general. For example, the director of a short I was DP on wanted to have it looking like Amélie and I managed to set up the camera for that look. However, you don't need to go through it shot by shot. You can also use paintings or other visuals as a general visual reference. For music, putting in temp tracks is common during the edit, however, some composers don't want to hear them. There it's comes down to discussion, plus there's a wide range of music other than film music that can be used as a reference.

April 5th, 2020, 06:30 PM	#967
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Oh okay, I don't have temp tracks in my edits, but I just feel I can explain what I want better through visual or audio references from other examples. There is another thing I was wondering about. Since I have had trouble controlling the colors of locations, not being able to repaint walls, or not being able to control colors of cars, outdoors, and people say they find colors of things in the background distracting... what if I colored a movie in monochrome color, like old silent films? Every scene is just one color tint then, so it doesn't matter if there are uncontrolled colors in the background because the audience will not see them then? Would monochrome color be a good idea therefore?

April 6th, 2020, 12:55 AM	#968
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? All this depends on if you're trying to make a pastiche of a silent film or a contemporary film. You just can't throw in a tinted look unless it's part of the overall telling of the story. Like "The Lighthouse" uses black and white. The Lighthouse \| Official Trailer HD \| A24 - YouTube Who are these "some people"? They seem to reoccur in all your threads. If a location has an inappropriate colour, don't use it, you go around various locations to find the right one. I know that here the same farm house has been used on a number of films and it looks different in each film because of the art direction.

April 6th, 2020, 02:02 AM	#969
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Oh okay. It's a crime thriller set in a modern times city. They are just people I have shown my work to, to get opinions. Sometimes I am forced to use a location that may not have something ideal about it though. But then again I could try to change the distracting color only in post, if a color grading program can do it, without creating much noise issues. Or maybe better, what we could do is light the locations so there is light on the actors, but try to avoid lighting the background a lot, if that's best.

April 6th, 2020, 02:39 AM	#970
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? You should be aware of the background when you're filming, if it's distracting you should be aware of it at the time, you shouldn't need other people to tell you. You can rearrange the furniture and/or bring your own furnishings to avoid an inappropriate background. Lighting can be used to reduce the viewer's eye being attracted to the background and/or you can use a shallower DOF to reduce the background detail. However, the method used must fit in with the overall look of the film.

April 6th, 2020, 10:48 AM	#971
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay thanks. I don't think that shallower DOF is an option for the master shots, unless it's okay to rack focus a lot between a group of actors, but not sure if the viewer will mind that or not.

April 6th, 2020, 10:55 AM	#972
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? It's done all the time. I think this has already been covered in another thread.

April 6th, 2020, 11:06 AM	#973
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay thanks, it's just when I see the master shot in a movie, everyone is in focus, and I don't ever recall seeing a movie with rack focusing in a master shot. So as long as it's acceptable, or I am not doing something too weird.

April 6th, 2020, 11:34 AM	#974
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? I saw this bhs from a movie. Look all the equipment and they even have big blue screen bkgd. https://vm.tiktok.com/tpuNMe/

April 6th, 2020, 11:42 AM	#975
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? If it's a shorter focal length lens you may not be aware of any focus adjustments, especially if you're not looking for them. If you're worried about the background, you'd be using a slightly longer focal length and this is where a dolly comes in for your camera moves.