Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Pete Cofrancesco · April 2nd, 2020, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Well I think it's because of the S-log 3 formage being so flat, that you can hardly even see the shadow patterns as a result, until grading later.

If you're shooting in LOG you should be using a monitor with a LUT to properly review the shot. Even without that you should know better to light her from opposite sides and expecting it to look the same.

Ryan Elder · April 2nd, 2020, 01:14 PM

Yes, I told myself next time I am going to figure out how to get LUT onto it. And of course I will watch out a lot more for the lighting. And I will not settle for less for a DP and be sure to get one that has really goodlooking movies under their belt before going ahead with the next project, if that's best.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 2nd, 2020, 01:19 PM

As long as you understand going forward that's what's most important.

Ryan Elder · April 2nd, 2020, 01:25 PM

Yeah, I think I do... Plus good actors as well. It seems that I have been okay with audio, because no one has ever said anything about my audio so far, accept for a mistake once in a while that needs fixing.

As for a DP, there are some who may be interested, but their lighting is mostly documentary style lighting, in their reels and not sure if that is right for this type of project, especially since I was told my backgrounds are lit too well, which is what documentaries tend to do.

Brian Drysdale · April 2nd, 2020, 02:01 PM

Documentaries have differing lighting styles, some have pretty dark backgrounds..

Ryan Elder · April 2nd, 2020, 02:09 PM

Yeah some do, true. Maybe the ones that concentrate on crime more, seem to.

Well I thought maybe film noir style lighting was the way to go, if I can find a DP that is more familiar in that. In the past for a couple of projects, they said they did not think that style was good because of shadows from the actors, but in old film noir movies, you often see shadows of the actors. So is that bad?

Brian Drysdale · April 2nd, 2020, 03:04 PM

Why are you asking? You must know the look you're going for.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 2nd, 2020, 04:16 PM

The whole point of this tangent was explaining why the scene was jarring and how the inconsistent lighting contributed to it.

Now were off to film noir lighting. I can see Ryan at the rental house, I'd like to rent some film noir lights. While you're at it I need a film noir dp.

Brian Drysdale · April 2nd, 2020, 04:32 PM

I suspect it might be the reason why all the equipment is already booked at the rental house.

Ryan Elder · April 2nd, 2020, 05:28 PM

Well of course I know there are no film noir lights... I was just saying that is probably the type of lighting that would best suit this next project, but it's so far, hard to find a DP that is familiar with that style.

Brian Drysdale · April 3rd, 2020, 01:26 AM

It's unlikely you'll find a DP in your area who commonly shoots with hard light, since the fashion is currently for soft lighting. You want one who likes film noir and wants to have a go using more fresnel spots instead of using soft lights all the time. So, don't expect to see your film in their show reel.

However, you may find that it takes longer to light and you may need to start from black, so all the windows may need to be blacked out with drapes or similar.

Ryan Elder · April 3rd, 2020, 02:47 AM

Oh okay, I just thought that film noir would look good since it's a crime thriller and all, and have always liked the look of it, and felt that hard light would add to the mood.

Paul R Johnson · April 3rd, 2020, 01:40 PM

Sadly I suspect it would look terrible. Mean and moody lighting takes planning and decent equipment and very careful focussing. You'll be moving into risky territory again. No idea why you suddenly get an idea and change everything. Personally - when I had to teach film noire, I hated it, and hated all the examples I had to inflict on the students. At best it's hard work to watch, and the student attempts were dire - poor focus, no detail in the shadows, and just unpleasant.

Ryan Elder · April 3rd, 2020, 01:53 PM

Oh okay, well I was just going by what would be fitting by mood, but is there a better lighting style that would work better for this type or production, other than film noir then?

Paul R Johnson · April 3rd, 2020, 03:01 PM

The big problem is that nobody has really produced a definition of what is and what isn't film noir. It could suit you pretty well. Weird and non-standard camera angles - wide or telephoto shots to make perspective look expanded or compressed - lots of shadows and non-conformity with the usual rules (this will mess you up Ryan - no rules?)

The problem is that many poor films get classified as film noir just because they have production mistakes.

Sounds like a recipe for a real mess!

April 2nd, 2020, 01:14 PM	#887
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Yes, I told myself next time I am going to figure out how to get LUT onto it. And of course I will watch out a lot more for the lighting. And I will not settle for less for a DP and be sure to get one that has really goodlooking movies under their belt before going ahead with the next project, if that's best.

April 2nd, 2020, 01:19 PM	#888
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? As long as you understand going forward that's what's most important.

April 2nd, 2020, 01:25 PM	#889
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Yeah, I think I do... Plus good actors as well. It seems that I have been okay with audio, because no one has ever said anything about my audio so far, accept for a mistake once in a while that needs fixing. As for a DP, there are some who may be interested, but their lighting is mostly documentary style lighting, in their reels and not sure if that is right for this type of project, especially since I was told my backgrounds are lit too well, which is what documentaries tend to do.

April 2nd, 2020, 02:01 PM	#890
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Documentaries have differing lighting styles, some have pretty dark backgrounds..

April 2nd, 2020, 02:09 PM	#891
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Yeah some do, true. Maybe the ones that concentrate on crime more, seem to. Well I thought maybe film noir style lighting was the way to go, if I can find a DP that is more familiar in that. In the past for a couple of projects, they said they did not think that style was good because of shadows from the actors, but in old film noir movies, you often see shadows of the actors. So is that bad?

April 2nd, 2020, 03:04 PM	#892
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Why are you asking? You must know the look you're going for.

April 2nd, 2020, 04:16 PM	#893
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? The whole point of this tangent was explaining why the scene was jarring and how the inconsistent lighting contributed to it. Now were off to film noir lighting. I can see Ryan at the rental house, I'd like to rent some film noir lights. While you're at it I need a film noir dp. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; April 2nd, 2020 at 07:30 PM.

April 2nd, 2020, 04:32 PM	#894
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? I suspect it might be the reason why all the equipment is already booked at the rental house.

April 2nd, 2020, 05:28 PM	#895
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Well of course I know there are no film noir lights... I was just saying that is probably the type of lighting that would best suit this next project, but it's so far, hard to find a DP that is familiar with that style.

April 3rd, 2020, 01:26 AM	#896
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? It's unlikely you'll find a DP in your area who commonly shoots with hard light, since the fashion is currently for soft lighting. You want one who likes film noir and wants to have a go using more fresnel spots instead of using soft lights all the time. So, don't expect to see your film in their show reel. However, you may find that it takes longer to light and you may need to start from black, so all the windows may need to be blacked out with drapes or similar. Blade Runner (1982) Official Trailer - Ridley Scott, Harrison Ford Movie - YouTube Sin City (2005) Official Trailer #1 - Bruce Willis, Elijah Wood Crime Thriller - YouTube

April 3rd, 2020, 02:47 AM	#897
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Oh okay, I just thought that film noir would look good since it's a crime thriller and all, and have always liked the look of it, and felt that hard light would add to the mood.

April 3rd, 2020, 01:40 PM	#898
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Sadly I suspect it would look terrible. Mean and moody lighting takes planning and decent equipment and very careful focussing. You'll be moving into risky territory again. No idea why you suddenly get an idea and change everything. Personally - when I had to teach film noire, I hated it, and hated all the examples I had to inflict on the students. At best it's hard work to watch, and the student attempts were dire - poor focus, no detail in the shadows, and just unpleasant.

April 3rd, 2020, 01:53 PM	#899
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Oh okay, well I was just going by what would be fitting by mood, but is there a better lighting style that would work better for this type or production, other than film noir then?

April 3rd, 2020, 03:01 PM	#900
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? The big problem is that nobody has really produced a definition of what is and what isn't film noir. It could suit you pretty well. Weird and non-standard camera angles - wide or telephoto shots to make perspective look expanded or compressed - lots of shadows and non-conformity with the usual rules (this will mess you up Ryan - no rules?) The problem is that many poor films get classified as film noir just because they have production mistakes. Sounds like a recipe for a real mess!