Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Paul R Johnson]

These posts are beneficial in other ways - Brian and I had never met until last week - when we got together here during the current production - I'm grateful to Ryan for making this possible!

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

No one is saying not to block ahead of time and be prepared with a plan, just that you should also be open to what happens with the actors on the set or during rehearsals. This becomes more important on low budget films, where you don't have the resources or pool of talent to pin everything down, so you need to make changes on the fly.

Again, a book like "The Director's Journey" by Mark W Travis may assist. I gather it's hard to get, but you may get used copies on Amazon. It can go into more detail than forum messages, but it will allow you too work things out for yourself.

Since you have problems with actors, "Directing Actors" by Judith Weston could be worth checking out.

Okay thanks, I read the Directing Actors book and have that one. I will get The Director's Journey next. Thanks. I watched some of his online advice, and Mark W. Travis is really good.

When you say that things can happen with the actors onset that are unplanned, do you mean that the actors would be more comfortable doing different things in the blocking?

[Brian Drysdale]

No, they react to the siltation or the location or other actors and come up with something you haven't thought of, it could be any aspect of the scene, but it adds something to the scene. You will find aspects of that in "Directing Actors"; it goes into more detail and depth than is possible in a forum .

Yes, I was shown around the panto stage by Paul in our Victorian theatre. Someone reminded me that they reduced the rake on the stage because it was causing problems for the ballet dancers.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I have that book and will read it again. I will also see if I can order the other one. Thanks.

And I can be open to changing blocking, I just have to make sure I don't make any mistakes if I do any deviation. I've also had it where actors come up with things I haven't thought of, and I liked it better or at least thought it was better at the time.

[Brian Drysdale]

Any changes come down to your judgment as the director, there are no rules as to how you decide other than it fits with the character in their current situation within the story. If you can't judge these things, I would either give up trying to be a director or work on developing your shills in this area.

However, be prepared to make mistakes, since you won't get better unless you're willing to risk being wrong on occasions. That's part of the creative process, it's what you do with mistakes that's important.

[Josh Bass]

ryan why dont you just make some simple shorts that take one or two days to shoot in available locations with actors and crew who will work for free (even if the actors are terrible you can work on the technical stuff and theres always someone out theres always someone out there willing to work for free) or small fees? Then youre not spending money and you can try out aaaaaallllllll these methods and ideas youre asking about exhaustively. Then there’s nothing at stake and you have nothing to lose. Hell it doesnt even have to be a complete story, could just be a scene, to see if a certain technique works.

[Ryan Elder]

Sure I can do that. It's just before, I was told that I should hire good actors and a good DP cause the ones willing to work for free are probably not as good, hence why I was told I need a better DP and actors.

There is one script I have that is 15 pages, all in location, I have been trying to get a location for. But I haven't been able to find a location owner that is okay for an entire 15 pages shot there, since that would take more than day. I can keep looking.

[Josh Bass]

yeah for big projects or things youre trying to promote yourself with you want good people. For just farting around and experimenting and testing ideas the standard could be much lower. also 15 mins is pretty long, to me. I was thinking five minutes tops. remember these are for your own peace mind and answering your myriad questions.

[John Nantz]

Just dropped in to make a comment about using a star filter but the star filter thread has moved on so is apparently OBE. Comments have been made before about threads that morph in lieu of starting a new one.

However ...

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

ryan why dont you just make some simple shorts that take one or two days to shoot in available locations with actors and crew who will work for free (even if the actors are terrible you can work on the technical stuff and theres always someone out theres always someone out there willing to work for free) or small fees? Then youre not spending money and you can try out aaaaaallllllll these methods and ideas youre asking about exhaustively. Then there’s nothing at stake and you have nothing to lose. Hell it doesnt even have to be a complete story, could just be a scene, to see if a certain technique works.

With regard to Josh's idea about doing a short video, "... make some simple shots ...", this is a very good idea. A great opportunity to work on ideas and the technical aspects. Excellent idea. There has got to be some people in your area that would want a short movie made. Documentary? Heck, even some commercials for starters. Anything that can put to use some of the skills that are needed so one can feel more comfortable with varying conditions.

How long is it until this big movie shoot gets started?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Well I wanted to take a script I had before and just direct one or two scenes as a test. Some scenes are only 2-4 pages, and wanted to try one of those. But I wasn't able to attract to want to do it. They just said that they are only scenes, and not a whole story, and were not interested in doing just one scene only it seems.

As for documentary short, the one I shot before a few weeks ago, I am currently editing.

[John Nantz]

There's an old saying "Practice makes perfect."

Doing a variety of shoots, or projects, will provide opportunity to do, and learn, new things. Kinda like learning to drive a car, with time behind the wheel one gets better. New encounters like snow conditions.

A few years ago there was a terrible accident on a local four lane commercial district road. The cars (drivers) were following each other too close and one car stopped, the car behind "jumped" into the left lane as the last second without slowing down and the car that was behind it plowed into the rear of the stopped car. Lesson learned: give some space behind the car in front.

That was for driving but doing a video has lots of different situations and to be able to adjust to them, it really helps to have experience, the "been there, done that" kind.

[Ryan Elder]

Sure I can do that. When it comes to getting actors to do individual scenes though, without a whole story, how should I go about trying to get them on board with that, since before, no one wanted to do just one scene only, when I tried?

But I was also told before, to stop doing projects with the same people, willing to work for free, cause I was told that the problems I have are bad acting and cinematography, so it's not worth doing any more free no budget projects, if they are just going to result in the same problems. Do you think the people who told me that, have a point?

[Josh Bass]

AGain, what I'm suggesting is these are not really supposed to be "real" movies or projects.. just trying to get you to test and see for yourself how all these things you ask about will work in a tangible way.

What does a star filter look like in the context of the project you're thinking of using it on? Answer: go out and film with one at a similar location or scene.

Blah blah blah blah blocking? Answer: storyboard the crap out of a scene or short and film it to see what happens when you try to follow those boards exactly the way you want. Did it work out or did you have problems that no amount of planning could solve?

etc. etc. for each of your many questions/threads.

Hell, you could even cast, family, friends, yourself in every role. The idea here is proof of concept...what result do I get when I do X? Most of your concerns are technical not artistic so again for these purposes, doesn't matter if the actors are bad.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay well the last short film I made, I followed the storyboards down to a T without changing my mind on set at all, and I felt things were much better, than on past projects. I didn't fall into any traps that I did when changing my mind on set before.

I've tried to get family and friends to do tests with. They are okay with helping out with a shot here and there, but they never have time for a whole scene, and always cancel or duck out so far.

[Josh Bass]

Do you have that short available to view? As much as it may be painful you can learn a lot by criticism, especially when you think something is good (not to say it isn't but anytime something of mine was criticized it was rarely about the things I had ever thought were lacking).