Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Brian Drysdale]

It's poorly framed, that gray thing in the background is distracting,. go wider so we can see their stance. Think Fred Astaire movies in the 1930's the person interested in this wants to see the stance and the moves.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, I'll show the whole body from head to toe, even if that means they are twice as far away as long as that's okay. I am just afraid the audience might not see the moves as well then.

[Josh Bass]

Youll have to figure out what parts call for closer shots and go back and get those after the wide. So theyll have to repeat the action. Or use multiple cams. There really arent other options.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. However, when I inserted cutaways before I was told not to use them. So should I let a master play out in it's entirety then?

[Josh Bass]

Told by who? Your client or folks here?

What I mean is you use the wide when they talk about footwork or anything below the waist, and tighter shots when talking about upper body, arms, head, etc. Think of where your attention would be if you were in the class and use the camera/edit to draw it there at each moment of the video.

Youre worried about jump cuts...valid, but thats where multiple cams would help.

[Paul R Johnson]

There are so many things wrong here.
I agree with brian - 16:9, nothing else. Upper body is useless because the legs and feet are required to show complete stance and balance.The hand of the person striking the blow needs to show where it contacts the person. The instructors landing point is hidden.

What concerns me most is that they look like two amateurs pretebding to be experts. Would I take instruction from somebody who dresses and speaks like this? No. In the first clip the guy wears the correct gear. He shows the usual respect and has authority. These two come over as totally unexpert from how they talk, how they stand and how they interact. It's not a training video, more a sparring. It doesn't teach anyone anything. Forget the camera and forget the sound. These two guys are terrible teachers.

The best you can do is go wider so we see both in the frame properly, shot from an angle that shows what they are doing. Audio needs work. They don't have a thick MA wrap around on, and they don't have a little scratchy beard to rub on it, so if both speak, you need two radio packs. Your boom mic could give usable room sound if it's aimed properly, but the hard surfaces make the room lively. From what I see, you and the storyboards are way off the type of shoot these two want to do. As for the furnace - you need to get control and turn it off. I'd also urge them strongly to consider their appearance and the way they speak. Martial arts needs authority of speech, not conversation style. Please shoot full body. Close ups can be useful, but the majority of the time we need the full person.

As for the cutaways you're back to "I was told..." YOU are supposed to be the video expert and they are the martial arts experts, you've gone subservient again. I understand though that they find closeups wrong, and I agree. Unless the close up shows something vital in detail, a full body shot works better.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. Well I don't have to use the cutaway shots if they are not good then. However, there are times in the master shots, where he has to pause and then we retake it.

So in order to skip over those, should I just do a fade then, to avoid a jump cut?

The thing about only showing the upper half if it's upper half fighting, that was the original plan, upper fighting only for this shoot, and footwork later, but he through in the foot move unexpectedly. So in that case, should I cut around the foot move and take it out?

[Brian Drysdale]

If they go off script, get them to do it again.

[Ryan Elder]

Well there is more than one take, but each take has it's good and bad parts. So if I wanted to use sections of different takes, but not jump cutting, should I fade it then?

[John Nantz]

There are a lot of really good comments here and I’d like to make one about the heater noise. The temperature forecast ranges vary from well below freezing to (relative to our area) really cold, like -15ºC on Friday to -33ºC next week so IF turning off the heater is a no-go, here is a thought.

Assume the heater vents are floor or wall registers. If there are only a couple consider this to try and muffle the high-frequency noise. Get a blanket, one of those soft kinda fluffy ones, then thumbtack and/or tape it to the wall and let it hang over a couple chairs, enough so the bottom barely touches the floor so that the warm air can still blow into the room but not without first being being dampened by the blanket.

Since high frequencies from tweeters are more directional than woofers, the thought is that by causing a directional change in the air flow, like having it go into a sound chamber, it will cause a dampening in the high frequencies, hopefully enough to make the effort worthwhile.

Just grasping at straws here. What do you think, too much work for little gain or worth trying?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Maybe all it needs is a star filter. ;-)

[Josh Bass]

and SCENE!

(thread fades to black)

[Greg Smith]

One more comment and then I'll stay quiet.

The entire video seems to have been shot from a tripod with the camera at eye level. That's a good instinct for the majority of shots, but it's boring if the point of view never changes. You need to go high, low and everything in between. Brace the camera against the floor or use a stepladder for high shots if you don't have "proper" support equipment for this. Get under, over, around and inside your character's actions, choosing the angle (up and down as well as left and right) that shows each move most clearly and dynamically. Yes, you'll have to repeat parts of the action and possibly even the narration at times, and the talent will need to be able to do this. If they can't, I'd seriously question their competence as practitioners and instructors of the form. Go a little crazy. Strap a GoPro on the instructor's forehead and show things from his point of view. Put the camera on the floor pointing straight up as they spar around it. Some (many) shots may not work, but you might discover something unique or interesting in the process. Don't be bound by the script or storyboard once you're in the middle of the action. Go close, go wide and go dramatic when you have the opportunity. Get the coverage you need, but trust yourself enough to be a little spontaneous and creative as well. Not everything can or should be planned completely in advance.

A gimbal may help get some of these shots, but even old fashioned hand holding has its place here. A little camera shake looks perfectly natural when the camera moves organically with the action, as long as you don't hold the shots too long. Staying at the wide end of the focal length scale and getting close to the subjects helps too.

If I could make just one suggestion about equipment I'd suggest you try to buy, rent or steal (just kidding) a second camera that is a decent match for the one you already have. Lock it down on the master shot while you concentrate on the closeups and interesting angles. A cheap prime lens will do, and you can get by with even a spindly stills tripod if you don't plan to disturb the camera or attempt any pans, tilts or zooms while it's locked down.

The narrative might flow better if you record the instructor separately as a voiceover and just record natural movement and background sounds during the action. This would go a long way toward solving all the audio challenges of that subject and location.

- Greg

[John Nantz]

Originally Posted by Greg Smith

A gimbal may help get some of these shots, but even old fashioned hand holding has its place here. A little camera shake looks perfectly natural when the camera moves organically with the action, as long as you don't hold the shots too long. Staying at the wide end of the focal length scale and getting close to the subjects helps too.

+1 ... nothing wrong with hand-held B-roll with these action shots if one has any sort of ability to do hand-held shots. With everything moving in the scene it should be easy.

Originally Posted by Greg Smith

If I could make just one suggestion about equipment I'd suggest you try to buy, rent or steal (just kidding) a second camera that is a decent match for the one you already have. Lock it down on the master shot while you concentrate on the closeups and interesting angles.

Yes!
This gig is meant for B-roll.

Edit: #386, Pete - that was so Ba.a.a.ad !

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by John Nantz

There are a lot of really good comments here and I’d like to make one about the heater noise. The temperature forecast ranges vary from well below freezing to (relative to our area) really cold, like -15ºC on Friday to -33ºC next week so IF turning off the heater is a no-go, here is a thought.

Assume the heater vents are floor or wall registers. If there are only a couple consider this to try and muffle the high-frequency noise. Get a blanket, one of those soft kinda fluffy ones, then thumbtack and/or tape it to the wall and let it hang over a couple chairs, enough so the bottom barely touches the floor so that the warm air can still blow into the room but not without first being being dampened by the blanket.

Since high frequencies from tweeters are more directional than woofers, the thought is that by causing a directional change in the air flow, like having it go into a sound chamber, it will cause a dampening in the high frequencies, hopefully enough to make the effort worthwhile.

Just grasping at straws here. What do you think, too much work for little gain or worth trying?

Oh it's not that because of the weather that we were unable to turn it off, we just couldn't find a switch anymore for it. Perhaps it's in the upper floor of the building, which is locked and we don't have access to.

Originally Posted by Greg Smith

One more comment and then I'll stay quiet.

The entire video seems to have been shot from a tripod with the camera at eye level. That's a good instinct for the majority of shots, but it's boring if the point of view never changes. You need to go high, low and everything in between. Brace the camera against the floor or use a stepladder for high shots if you don't have "proper" support equipment for this. Get under, over, around and inside your character's actions, choosing the angle (up and down as well as left and right) that shows each move most clearly and dynamically. Yes, you'll have to repeat parts of the action and possibly even the narration at times, and the talent will need to be able to do this. If they can't, I'd seriously question their competence as practitioners and instructors of the form. Go a little crazy. Strap a GoPro on the instructor's forehead and show things from his point of view. Put the camera on the floor pointing straight up as they spar around it. Some (many) shots may not work, but you might discover something unique or interesting in the process. Don't be bound by the script or storyboard once you're in the middle of the action. Go close, go wide and go dramatic when you have the opportunity. Get the coverage you need, but trust yourself enough to be a little spontaneous and creative as well. Not everything can or should be planned completely in advance.

A gimbal may help get some of these shots, but even old fashioned hand holding has its place here. A little camera shake looks perfectly natural when the camera moves organically with the action, as long as you don't hold the shots too long. Staying at the wide end of the focal length scale and getting close to the subjects helps too.

If I could make just one suggestion about equipment I'd suggest you try to buy, rent or steal (just kidding) a second camera that is a decent match for the one you already have. Lock it down on the master shot while you concentrate on the closeups and interesting angles. A cheap prime lens will do, and you can get by with even a spindly stills tripod if you don't plan to disturb the camera or attempt any pans, tilts or zooms while it's locked down.

The narrative might flow better if you record the instructor separately as a voiceover and just record natural movement and background sounds during the action. This would go a long way toward solving all the audio challenges of that subject and location.

- Greg

Okay thanks, it's strange how you say eye level cause the camera was actually at my lower chest area.. I'm 6'1'' so maybe I need to get the camera down below my stomach even then?

I also wanted to do shots from the floor for some other moves, but can do it for an angle for everything from now on just in case. I thought since a lot of it was upper movement, maybe you couldn't see some of the hand placements from the floor. If it were a movie fight I would do it, just wasn't sure about a promotional training video. But I can try!

I want him to narrate, he was just worried that his timing might be off cause he will have to pause when doing the move, and then wait for his narration to be over, but is not sure how long the narration would take. Unless I freeze frame it maybe in post, until it's over. Just not sure how to handle that one, cause he has a point about the timing.

As for how they are dressed, I know what you mean. I did look at them, and think you want to do the promotional video like that? Oh well, it's their show I guess.

But back to the shooting looking like it was at eye level. This is the second project someone said that when it was chest level. If I am 6'1'', and I want a normal type of master shot how low should I have the camera with my height do you think?