Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I wasn't considering slow motion though.

Some of the moves were pre-discussed but those are saved for the other shoots. I thought we were going to do them the first day cause we discussed it. But from now on I can tell him maybe we shouldn't shoot until every move is planned out and discussed if that's better. Some of the moves that I storyboarded he also changed the moves though, than what he had discussed. We had discussed a certain type of throw down for example, but then when he actually did, he said it turns out he couldn't do it this way, with this particular opponent. So the storyboard was not working, if he has to change the move because of that though.

I had the future shoots storyboarded, which I thought were going to use, but then he asked to these different moves for the first shoot instead, and wants to save those for later. But those shots are planned for later, and I think should go a lot better, if we stick to the planned shots. I have a much better feeling the storyboarded things we discussed before will go better, unless of course he has to change the move too much. But I really try to be ready for that and anticipate possible alternatives. I don't have to show them the storyboards, cause I saw them already do the moves before in rehearsing, and have storyboarded around what I saw, if that's good.

As for a tripods, yes, I wasn't planning on going hand held.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I have no idea what’s the purpose of these videos. They sound like instructional rather than a promotion or commercial. I personally would not have an interest learning this way. If it’s truly intended to be promotional none of this level of detail would be necessary. Clients often have misguided ideas and if you just let them do whatever they want you’ll find yourself struggling to get a professional result.

When I took karate classes the instructor would briefly describe the move, call up a student to demo it, breaking down each step and finally do it full speed. I would lav only the instruction part, stopping and repeating each step until I got the necessary close ups. I wouldn’t mic the full speed and ask him not talk this is where I’d use the voice over if necessary.

This is just my common sense approach. I’m sure there are many similar instructional martial arts videos on Youtube to measure your approach against.

[Ryan Elder]

It's meant to be promotional but I think that the client feels that if can really specify what he is doing, than it shows that he really knows his stuff maybe, and that is why he is being detailed? Knowing his stuff to promote more? When you say lav only the instructional part, are you saying put the lav on him, have him wear it during the fight, and when he pauses to talk, only use those recorded parts? Is that what you mean? They are not doing full speed though. He is talking while doing it, but not full speed.

But the lav still has problems with rustling though. Plus, the lav actually picks up the background furnace noise, worse than the mic on the stand, since the mic on the stand is directional, in comparison of course.

[Josh Bass]

I dont think you need boards at all for something like this. If it were me Id just have a shot list (“cu with left arm doing move a” etc.) and check them off as you go.

A plan is good but you can only preplan so much.

Of hes gonna completely change his plans for a shoot day he needs to let you know as much in advance as possible so you can adjust your plan.

[Brian Drysdale]

Given the nature of these things a storyboard is a complete waste of time, you don't have the level of control required. A generic shot list for what is required for each move being taught should do the job, you can then add to this on the day if more shots are required.

I suspect he's going to change things on the day, so all you can roll with it, making sure that you and he know the instructions he's going give by writing them out. I wouldn't expect a word perfect delivery, but you both know roughly what he's going to say.

[Paul R Johnson]

You're maybe going to have to reconsider lavs anyway - because in most Martial Arts, don't they grab the lapels? You'd be better off with a headset mic for this kind of thing?

[Ryan Elder]

Yes there is too much action going for lavs it seems. Well I don't have headsets but if I use those, I thought they would look kind of strange on them though, as you never see people wear headsets during promotional videos, do you? Or at least I haven't.

Or maybe the audience will understand it?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

But the lav still has problems with rustling though. Plus, the lav actually picks up the background furnace noise, worse than the mic on the stand, since the mic on the stand is directional, in comparison of course.

Based on a quick Youtube search I see some lessons with a lav and I hear the rustling you’re talking about. I would use a mic stand preferably with a boom (the boom isn’t essential but could be helpful). This will eliminate any hand noise if you’re using on camera mic. Turning off the air heating system is a must even if it’s only for 15 minutes intervals. The standard for audio for a video like this is substantial lower than an ad, interview or movie. All you care about is whether you can understand what he is saying. As far as broll and close ups with lots of cuts might not be necessary. This isn’t a movie don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Lav example

YouTube

on camera example

YouTube

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. He doesn't know how to switch off the furnace, and we couldn't figure it out. He just really wanted to roll cause of time for the first shoot.

I used a mic stand, pointed in his direction out of frame. But I couldn't boom cause I had to pan and tilt the camera in parts where they would go out of frame if I did not. I could move the camera further back so they will be in frame for the whole fight, and then boom while the camera is rolling, but then they are really far when trying to demonstrate the moves. So I figured it was best to just move the camera with them so they could be closer, and have the mic on a stand, if that was the better choice so far.

Even if I don't need storyboards, I thought they would still help with the difference in framing distances. I was told before, that my shots look like they at the same distance too much and that I need to make the change in distance, more obvious. So I storyboarded so I could see the distance differences, from shot to shot if that makes sense.

In those instruction videos you sent, when he talks about the moves, while demonstrating, are they using a boom or lavs? It sounds like a lav mic, but the rustling is not near as bad as I thought it would be. Are they doing something different?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I mean a mic stand with a boom that doesn’t need to be held like this Superscope LLC - On-Stage SB9600 Tripod Studio Boom Microphone Stand
They sell them in different sizes depending on height you need. It’s something that you should bring with you for solo gigs.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks, I've seen those before on other projects I have worked on. Not sure if I can get one in time for this one but I will consider. However, they seem to work on subjects that are still but if he is moving around while talking constantly, won't he go outside of the mics pick up pattern constantly, which would defeat the purpose?

[Brian Drysdale]

I don't understand why you're having problems with the framing. All you have to do with this type of production is remember the frame size and make sure they're not all the same size, change the lens if you need to and move to a different camera position.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh I just thought a visual reference of the frame size would be easier.

For example one of the moves for the next shoot is how to disarm a pistol from someone. I thought I would do this from two angles. One of a side point of view, and an overhead one pointing down. But I don't want the framing distance to be too much the same, so I thought I would draw out the distance differences in both shots as a visual reference to go by, if that makes sense. But if I'm being overcautious then I can ditch the storyboards.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Like I said given the scenario it’s not essential, the boom is more useful for stationary subjects like interviews. Some low end jobs you will not use in your reel all that matters is that the client is satisfied. Let him listen and watch the first installment figure out the furnace for the next one.

As far as framing I would shoot with one angle and would only change the framing if you took a break halfway through to avoid a jump cut. You’re over thinking this.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, sure, I can use it for interviews in the future. When it comes to interviews where the subject is sitting or standing still, so far I have been using a stand with a boom on it that goes overhead. It's not the kind where it's a long boom like that one, but a shorter one.

But I guess a long boom overhead, won't work here though, if the subject is moving around constantly going outside of the pick up pattern.

Here's a test edit of the first couple of minutes, so far:

Training video draft widescreen - YouTube

The sound sounds better in the first shot where he is in the mic's pick up pattern cause he is still but then after that when is fighting, he goes outside the pattern, and the mic had to be pulled further back for framing for the fight. The furnace is off and on in between cuts.