Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

[Ryan Elder]

I was thinking maybe it would be useful to use a program where you can actually see the storyboards play out, to the cast and crew, would be useful, but maybe it's not worth learning a new program and pencil and paper is still just as good? Or is FrameForge worth putting the time into learning, and you can do more on there, than pencil drawings can?

[Brian Drysdale]

I wouldn't play it out to the cast and crew, The actors aren't puppets and they are more interested their own character's motivation, so they may feel locked in by your computer drawings and feel unable to make suggestions on the day. The walk thoughs and rehearsals are more important, if it's an effect heavy scene, it may be worth showing them a storyboard drawing, so they get a sense of what's in the green screen

I've seen storyboards that bear no relationship to how a scene was shot, so unless I sense they've been drawn by a really good storyboard artist, I just regard them as a starting point and subject to change.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, it's just I find that when things change later, it doesn't turn out as well, where as the storyboards I stuck to the plan on turn out better in my experience. So I thought it was best to come up with a plan early on and rehears it, even the blocking, rather than deciding on it that day.

Plus the blocking and characters' movement helps determine how many shots are needed as well. I don't like adding more shots on the shoot day, than what is planned cause then you risk running over time, don't you? But if I should wait till shooting before blocking is even discussed, then what's the point of other filmmakers even using programs like frameforge?

[Brian Drysdale]

Rarely do you add shots, you're more likely to drop them because you're running out of time.

"filmmakers even using programs like frameforge?" They can't draw.

[Paul R Johnson]

Many people cannot draw. Many can not read plans, or understand drawings. In all my career, the only time I have produced a story board was when I was teaching in college, and the syllabus said I had to make students familiar with story boarding. I think it's become a technique that somehow has had far too much emphasis put on it.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well for my first short film, I tried not drawing and just had a shot list only, but I wasn't really satisfied cause I felt maybe drawings would have explained things more clearly.

The degree of the angles was off by a bit than what I wanted so I thought that drawings would have shown the degree of the angle. Unless I can describe the degree without a drawing, and describe the blocking without one?

[Brian Drysdale]

You can't tell the final degree of the angle from the storyboard, what's down the camera viewfinder/director's monitor is the final arbitrator. As the director, you can ask for adjustments to the framing, even with top storyboard artists, there will still be adjustments on the set.

Some directors physically frame the shot with the camera.

You need to communicate with the DP or camera operator if you want changes, the storyboard just gets the camera into a rough position, not its final framing.

[Ryan Elder]

True, it's just that before, I kept trying to explain how the angle was wrong and the DP was not adjusting it the way I want so I thought going over drawings, in advance, to the shoot date, would help a lot.

[Josh Bass]

That's probably a verbal communication problem between you two on set and not a storyboard issue. On set you would see something you don't like and say thing like "camera height is too high/low", pan left, pan right, tilt up/down, more headroom, tighten up, widen out, I want more of a wide angle feel, that isn't the right lens, etc. etc. Even if these "DPs" don't know the proper terminology, find a layman's/dumbed down way to explain the same thing.

Like they're saying the boards are a rough idea. What if moving the cam because that lamp or that window looks better half a foot to the right in frame? You're gonna ignore that 'cause of storyboards? Come on now.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

True, it's just that before, I kept trying to explain how the angle was wrong and the DP was not adjusting it the way I want so I thought going over drawings, in advance, to the shoot date, would help a lot.

Do you think that would make any difference? You and the DP can work out a shot standing side by side, the storyboard won't change a thing.

Did the DP discuss why he was re-framing the shot?

[Ryan Elder]

Well in that particular example, I wanted an actor to look like he was punching another actor. I was the person pretending to be punched. But the DP didn't frame any of the takes that way, and you could see that the punch wasn't actually hitting in any of them, the way she framed it.

One of the takes, I got punched accidentally for real, so we just ended up using that one in the edit.

[Josh Bass]

Yes but did you tell her “I want it to look like Im really being punched” or did you say “the camera needs to go over here because from this angle you cant see the punch isnt really landing”? One of those is way more helpful than the other. One of those would probably make more sense to a DP.

[Ryan Elder]

I said the second one but maybe she wasn't understanding the concept. Later on when she saw the footage, of how it looks like I wasn't being punched, in the editing, she said she then understood what I was going for.

[Josh Bass]

She sounds highly inexperienced. I also don't understand why, if you were over her/she was working for YOU, she wouldn't simply just do what you said regardless of whether she quite understood or not. Director is OVER DP, you are her boss. Even if it's unpaid. If it wasn't unpaid that's even worse.

It would be like if I was gripping for someone (which I do) and simply refused to move a light where I was asked because it didn't make sense to me. You might question, but ultimately you shrug and say "ok, if that's what you want."

[Ryan Elder]

True. I just thought storyboards would show the exact degree of angle and blocking and would be less confusing. I was going to buy some storyboarding books for the storyboards, but should I not bother then and just do a shotlist in written words only?