Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan’s Rule #32
All movies with shots of hands are good. Beware of any storyboard without at least one shot of hand. This is a clear indication the movie is poor. Equally, adding at least one guaranteed success.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I haven’t been following this thread closely recently but in the other thread the general consensus was he should be using his own vision to make his movies instead of borrowing and combining ideas from hollywood movies.

I’m starting to be able to read between the lines. That if he studies award winning movies and replicates how they were shot his movie will be good too. This approach is both bad for the final result and for one’s development as a film maker. How can you think independently and have your own style if you’re reliant on other’s source material?

[Brian Drysdale]

To be worthwhile, any such reference to other films should fit within the context of you own film and work even if you're totally unaware of the other film, plus make these ideas your own. However, don't use other director's mistakes as a reason for repeating them - e,g. crossing the line.in error, rather than a deliberate and planned switch across the line.

A film reference in the middle of a gun fight

The Stairway Shootout - The Untouchables (8/10) Movie CLIP (1987) HD - YouTube

Switching across the line - going left field at dramatic points

The Prisoner opening titles - YouTube

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Ryan’s Rule #32
All movies with shots of hands are good. Beware of any storyboard without at least one shot of hand. This is a clear indication the movie is poor. Equally, adding at least one guaranteed success.

Oh okay, but there are lots of good movies without shots of hands though, that are considered classics. I mentioned High and Low before, or even the movie M (1931), which is considered a classic as well. I don't think 12 Angry Men (1957) had shots of hands either, accept for the part where they examine the knife, but you don't see shots of hands thrown in simply for coverage sake.

So I thought there were lots of movies without shots of hands that are not considered poor.

[Brian Drysdale]

Shots of hands are a quick cutaways sometimes used in interviews, often used to shorten clips of the interview.. In dramas, best only used if they providing information to the audience that's key to the scene, otherwise best avoid them.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I guess it’s pointless to try to dissuade Ryan from reverse engineering his movies. Famous director did x in this film, I will do x. Really should be concentrating to mastering the basics and putting into practice the fundamentals of film making.

[Brian Drysdale]

I suspect Ryan is taking Paul's rule #32 comment seriously.

[Ryan Elder]

Well what about the shot list i posted before for the scene I storyboarded? Is that original enough, or is that copying too much from other movies?

[Brian Drysdale]

From what it says in the list, that wouldn't hold a 3 to 5 minute scene

[Josh Bass]

Do you mean in the context of not enough variety/too boring/not holding audience interest?

[Ryan Elder]

Well I'm trying to get the shoot done faster and more efficiently. Plus I feel that there really isn't much else to make a point about in the scene, I think everything point and emotion wise, is covered in those shots. Am I missing anything perhaps?

[Josh Bass]

I think they're saying you're going to bore your audience with that amount of coverage for that long.

[Brian Drysdale]

Unless something is unusual is happening, 3 to 5 minutes is too long for a police briefing in a film. It's pure exposition from the sounds of it, which is what you try to avoid in a film script The shot list doesn't suggest anything is happening other than a straight talk by the inspector.

[Ryan Elder]

Perhaps it won't last 5 minutes, and maybe just three. It's three pages on the script, cause the inspector has to go over the case and the evidence they have so far, and what the next plan is. But it might only last 3 minutes maybe.

[John Nantz]

[edit: delayed post, wrote all this except the last paragraph after post #117]
It’s very interesting to read the posts on this subject area written by the pros in the business. Much of the DVinfo posts over time tended to be about technical things and this thread has drifted into a new area which is very interesting, for me at least. This is all about story telling and how one tells a story.

I’ve always considered that video is about story telling and every clip says something. With regard the part about what to shoot in the way of faces, hands, or anything else for that matter, it begs the question of why (whatever it is) it is being shot and included in the film/movie. What is being “said”? What is the connection to the previous clip and the following clip? If there is no “message” or reason for the linkage than why do it?

Anyway, connecting the rational for going from one clip to the next, If a movie was a book then clips would be like sentences, or perhaps a paragraph. Chapters in a book are often written with the ending paragraph or sentence that leads to the next chapter.

If one is making a shot of heads, hands, and things like that, what is the message or what is the story in that?

Case in point: In an official (not church) wedding I shot last year there was a singer that was singing to the the small (~ 40) group in attendance and the bride and groom were in the front row. It was a song about love and that love isn’t a game. At one point the bride reached over and clasped the grooms hand. Fortunately I had this on the wide 4K B-roll cam while shooting the singer. Haven’t finished the edit yet but instead of doing a cut to that I’ll probably do a fade overlay. This was very moving and that’s one place where cutting to hands would be telling, but just to shoot hands for shooting sake, I have a hard time with that.
[sorry for the delayed post]