Dolly out and Zoom out

[Garrett Low]

Is there a technical term for a shot where you dolly out and simultaneously zoom out? Also, can you point me to any example clips of where this is used?

I'll be shooting a movie where there is a fashion show scene and was thinking of possibly using something like this for a runway walk. Any thoughts on how it would fit into a scene like that?

Thanks,
Garrett

[Don Bloom]

Hey Garrett,
Man I'm blanking out , can't remember the tech name for it but I know there's a pretty long thread about it from not too long ago. Hitchcock used to use this technique in a number of his films.
I wish I could remember the name.

[Colin McDonald]

Dolly out and Zoom out
Is there a technical term for a shot where you dolly out and simultaneously zoom out?

Don, I believe you are thinking of the opposite effect that was discussed recently here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/document...e-closing.html

As for a name, how about "reverse dolly zoom?"

[Don Bloom]

Thanks Colin, yeah that's what I was thinking about. Man between the cold weather and the age I need to look at my drivers license every morning to make sure of my own name.

What were we talking about?

O|O
\--/

[Garrett Low]

Don and Colin, thanks.

Colin, you're correct, it's not a dolly zoom in the typical sense (zoom in/dolly out or zoom out/dolly in). I can't remember if I've ever seen this. In my mind it could give a really interesting effect but maybe it would be too weird. OK. Something for me to try. Who knows, maybe if I'm the first I'd get to name it...HEHE

-Garrett

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

People dolly and zoom out at the same time a lot. It helps to hide the zoom effect but is necessary when you have to cover a wide area and you don't have enough space. Zooming out also changes perspective.

Dollying out, zooming in and pulling focus? That has been done before too. But it's such a tacky shot which calls attention to itself. My opinion, of course.

[Garrett Low]

Can you give any examples? I don't believe it is done a lot. Dollying and Zooming give much different results even though many people think they do the same thing. I've been watching for this and haven't been able to identify a shot using it.

As I said, when I get some time I'll do some test shots as I may want to use it for a scene if it gives the effect I'm thinking it might.

-Garrett

[Travis Cossel]

This is what you're talking about I think:

Dolly zoom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Garrett Low]

Nope Travis, I've done dolly zooms before. That's where the zoom and dolly are moving in different directions, i.e. zoom in - dolly out or dolly in - zoom out. The key for that shot be effective is that the dolly move and zoom rate have to be coordinated to keep the main subject at approximately the same relative size in the frame.

I'm thinking of dollying out (or pulling back) while zooming out. Zooming out decreases the size of the objects in the frame while filling the frame with more objects. Zooming keeps relative angles and differences in focal lengths between object constant. Dolly out will change the relative angles and focal lengths to each object within the frame. If I'm imagining it correctly, it should give somewhat of a warp effect like being pulled up backwards out of a whole while waking up and coming out of tunnel vision. I may be imagining in CGI though ;-)

Garrett

[Colin McDonald]

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

This is what you're talking about I think:

Dolly zoom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I looked up the example quoted in 'Thriller 'mentioned in the link above. This takes place at about 8'26" to 8'28" in the version I got from iTunes as the girl notices that Michael has become one of the Zombies.

There is a dolly zoom where the girl stays the same size in the frame and the background seems to close in on her - ie the the camera dollies away from her while the lens zooms in on her. Is this not the reverse of the 'Vertigo' example nornally used and what you are meaning, Garrett?

"Reverse dolly zoom" won't do for a name - it sounds like Vertigo run backwards. How about "INVERSE dolly zoom"?

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Originally Posted by Garrett Low

Can you give any examples?

I've done it on my movie, if that counts. It's used whenever dolly space is limited and you still need to get the framing right...probably every second independent film uses it in one way or another. From the top of my head, Mario Bava used it a lot, and probably Scorcese too.

To answer the first question, the official name of this move is still 'dolly zoom'. It's just that the version famous is the Hitchcock or vertigo zoom. Theoretically, any move with both dolly and zoom is called a dolly zoom. Having said that, if you can produce a cool new effect, they'll probably name it after you!

[Garrett Low]

Originally Posted by Colin McDonald

I looked up the example quoted in 'Thriller 'mentioned in the link above. This takes place at about 8'26" to 8'28" in the version I got from iTunes as the girl notices that Michael has become one of the Zombies.

There is a dolly zoom where the girl stays the same size in the frame and the background seems to close in on her - ie the the camera dollies away from her while the lens zooms in on her. Is this not the reverse of the 'Vertigo' example nornally used and what you are meaning, Garrett?

"Reverse dolly zoom" won't do for a name - it sounds like Vertigo run backwards. How about "INVERSE dolly zoom"?

That's still what I've always called a dolly zoom. I've seen many instances where you dolly out and zoom in. It's actually a great looking shot in a long hallway. What I'm talking about would be where the dolly move and zoom are going in the same direction.

Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran

I've done it on my movie, if that counts. It's used whenever dolly space is limited and you still need to get the framing right...probably every second independent film uses it in one way or another. From the top of my head, Mario Bava used it a lot, and probably Scorcese too.

To answer the first question, the official name of this move is still 'dolly zoom'. It's just that the version famous is the Hitchcock or vertigo zoom. Theoretically, any move with both dolly and zoom is called a dolly zoom. Having said that, if you can produce a cool new effect, they'll probably name it after you!

Sareesh, I suppose you're correct in that anytime you're dollying while zooming its dolly zoom.

Thanks,
Garrett

[Colin McDonald]

Garrett, I see now that's clear from your first post. Sorry to confuse the issue!

[Mark Ahrens]

I've seen it called a "Zolly" - not the kind of shot you'd want to try to pull off on a live event.

[Garrett Low]

Originally Posted by Colin McDonald

Garrett, I see now that's clear from your first post. Sorry to confuse the issue!

No problem Colin, I"m almost always confused anyway.

Originally Posted by Mark Ahrens

I've seen it called a "Zolly" - not the kind of shot you'd want to try to pull off on a live event.

It's not your normal Zolly also it is a zoom and dolly but both would be moving out. I agree that you'd pretty much never be able to pull off one at a live event. And to make it even harder, this would be with models walking toward me on a runway. But, this isn't a live event. It is a scene in a movie we are shooting so we're much more controlled. Although I can't waist a lot of takes on this one shot.

I'm looking for a way to show the frantic pace of a fashion show without using the usual whip zoom/pans and rapid cuts. I was was thinking that this might be a good opening to the scene.