safest way to crash a car into a tree?

Jacques E. Bouchard · February 9th, 2010, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Wheeler

I like the idea of the trees perspective as well. with increased zoom, don't you loose depth perception?

Yes, that's precisely why you do it this way. If you shoot the oncoming car from some distance behind the tree and keep the tree in frame, you could cut while the car is still several meters from the tree but it'll look like it's a few inches.

Oliver Neubert · February 9th, 2010, 02:08 AM

it is like jumping from a plane without a parachute. until you are about one inch from the ground, not much has happened, no damage yet. and how much of a problem can one inch possibly be..
anyway...

I would try to do the whole driving - skidding - swearing - panicking all the way up to the tree, then cut to the "unmounted bouncing camcorder with flying shards of glass" (maybe even some shards thrown from the rear seat) and then cut to the car from the outside, front wrapped around the tree. The back of the car lifted by wire attached to a crane, then the car drops and does the "little post crash bouncy thing" then you rotoscope the wire out. or if you don't want to do that, just frame it to the middle of the rear wheel, not showing the wires.
You don't have to lift the car very high, a foot or so should be enough. you could possibly even lift it using a lever, which you suddenly let go.

David Chilson · February 9th, 2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Wheeler

how am I gonna get hurt pushing it into a tree with a tractor? it's no different than digging into a big pile of rock hard dirt. It wont be fast, that's what post is for. I think this is going to turn out great.

Physics, that's how. To simulate the same amount of damage to the front of the car by pushing it from the rear will require much MORE energy than crashing the car. You are attempting to transfer energy from the rear the full length of the car to the tree. Thinking that it will be similar to digging in hard dirt is wrong.

Let's see, you would need a very large tractor that could maintain traction that could generate sufficient energy to crush the car against a tree and you can't see how you or worse yet, a bystander be injured?

Graeme Hay · February 9th, 2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques E. Bouchard

Models are a terrible idea. It'll all look fake and amateurish.

More or less amateurish then purposely driving a car into a tree?

Honestly I'll agree its not the best idea, After Effects is, but for some reason he can't use it (or get someone else to do it for him).

Alec Wheeler · February 9th, 2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Chilson

Physics, that's how. To simulate the same amount of damage to the front of the car by pushing it from the rear will require much MORE energy than crashing the car. You are attempting to transfer energy from the rear the full length of the car to the tree. Thinking that it will be similar to digging in hard dirt is wrong.

Let's see, you would need a very large tractor that could maintain traction that could generate sufficient energy to crush the car against a tree and you can't see how you or worse yet, a bystander be injured?

the front of the car will be SIGNIFICANTLY weakened. It'll have the engine and radiator and stuff out. the innerfenders will be gone, everything making the front clip rigid and strong will be cut or removed. it'll crumple like a tin can up until the K member, and I don't need any more carnage than that. it's not gonna get a moving start. that's more dangerous than crashing the car. just rest up against it and slowly push it till its "crashed".

Alec Wheeler · February 9th, 2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Neubert

You don't have to lift the car very high, a foot or so should be enough. you could possibly even lift it using a lever, which you suddenly let go.

actually, a regular floor jack would do just fine. raise it up just a bit, let it fall and bounce. especially if it was raised from say a rear corner. just frame it out of the shot.

Jacques E. Bouchard · February 9th, 2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Hay

More or less amateurish then purposely driving a car into a tree?

Much more. There's no way of making a branch and a toy car look like a real car and a tree.

And it's not a case of "either/or". I've offered solutions that don't require smashing a car into anything.

J.

Jacques E. Bouchard · February 9th, 2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Wheeler

the front of the car will be SIGNIFICANTLY weakened. It'll have the engine and radiator and stuff out. the innerfenders will be gone, everything making the front clip rigid and strong will be cut or removed. it'll crumple like a tin can up until the K member, and I don't need any more carnage than that. it's not gonna get a moving start. that's more dangerous than crashing the car. just rest up against it and slowly push it till its "crashed".

OK, I said this in my first post and people pretty much ignored it, so I'll tell it again: you CANNOT smash anything into a large tree, they are protected by city bylaws - even on private property. You need a special permit to cut a tree in your yard, you sure as hell need permission to smash a car into one - and you won't get it.

Forget smashing anything into a tree. Period. End of discussion. You WILL be fined and may have to go to court.

Alec Wheeler · February 9th, 2010, 07:29 PM

were not cutting it down. were not moving it. the way were gonna do it, it won't even damage it. maybe some bark will come off. what does the state care if I push something against my own tree?

Jacques E. Bouchard · February 9th, 2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Wheeler

were not cutting it down. were not moving it. the way were gonna do it, it won't even damage it. maybe some bark will come off. what does the state care if I push something against my own tree?

Tell it to the judge. Trees are protected. Period.

Adam Gold · February 9th, 2010, 11:08 PM

I dunno, Jacques. Oregon's a pretty libertarian place. You can do pretty much anything there, especially if it's on your own property.

Jacques E. Bouchard · February 9th, 2010, 11:58 PM

Cities require permits to cut down trees, Salem is no different. And that's not just for safety reasons, but to make sure old trees don't get wiped out for no good reason.

A quick Google search turns up a newspaper article about a Salem developer that was fined $10,000 for cutting down trees on his property without a permit.

If the OP runs a car into a tree, I'd wager dollars to donuts that a neighbour'll call the cops. Especially if it's a large, shade tree. And the next-door neighbour who might suffer damage if the tree gets sick from the impact, dies and falls on his property later on will be most vocal about it.

This thread started out fun, it's turned into a freaking advertisement for the Darwin awards...

Jim Andrada · February 10th, 2010, 12:01 AM

Oliver - interesting example about the parachute. Particularly because Doug Spotted Eagle who posts here often had exactly this problem when he was skydiving and at the last minute lost control of his parachute and smashed into the ground - he nearly died and was hospitalized for an extended period.

And as you say, he was fine when he was still one inch from the ground.

Alec Wheeler · February 10th, 2010, 12:24 AM

yeah, I haven't heard of any tree protection programs. I could be wrong, i guess. I know who to ask about it though.
anywho, the car is all fixed up and ready to shoot. gotta clean the interior though.

David W. Jones · February 10th, 2010, 08:23 AM

So let me ask what the end result of this exercise will be.
A video posted to YouTube?

February 9th, 2010, 11:08 PM	#56
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I dunno, Jacques. Oregon's a pretty libertarian place. You can do pretty much anything there, especially if it's on your own property. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

February 10th, 2010, 08:23 AM	#60
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	So let me ask what the end result of this exercise will be. A video posted to YouTube? __________________ David W. Jones www.joneshdfilms.com

February 9th, 2010, 02:08 AM	#47
Oliver Neubert Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 101	it is like jumping from a plane without a parachute. until you are about one inch from the ground, not much has happened, no damage yet. and how much of a problem can one inch possibly be.. anyway... I would try to do the whole driving - skidding - swearing - panicking all the way up to the tree, then cut to the "unmounted bouncing camcorder with flying shards of glass" (maybe even some shards thrown from the rear seat) and then cut to the car from the outside, front wrapped around the tree. The back of the car lifted by wire attached to a crane, then the car drops and does the "little post crash bouncy thing" then you rotoscope the wire out. or if you don't want to do that, just frame it to the middle of the rear wheel, not showing the wires. You don't have to lift the car very high, a foot or so should be enough. you could possibly even lift it using a lever, which you suddenly let go.

February 9th, 2010, 07:29 PM	#54
Alec Wheeler New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 20	were not cutting it down. were not moving it. the way were gonna do it, it won't even damage it. maybe some bark will come off. what does the state care if I push something against my own tree?

February 9th, 2010, 11:58 PM	#57
Jacques E. Bouchard Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 442	Cities require permits to cut down trees, Salem is no different. And that's not just for safety reasons, but to make sure old trees don't get wiped out for no good reason. A quick Google search turns up a newspaper article about a Salem developer that was fined $10,000 for cutting down trees on his property without a permit. If the OP runs a car into a tree, I'd wager dollars to donuts that a neighbour'll call the cops. Especially if it's a large, shade tree. And the next-door neighbour who might suffer damage if the tree gets sick from the impact, dies and falls on his property later on will be most vocal about it. This thread started out fun, it's turned into a freaking advertisement for the Darwin awards...

February 10th, 2010, 12:01 AM	#58
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Oliver - interesting example about the parachute. Particularly because Doug Spotted Eagle who posts here often had exactly this problem when he was skydiving and at the last minute lost control of his parachute and smashed into the ground - he nearly died and was hospitalized for an extended period. And as you say, he was fine when he was still one inch from the ground.

February 10th, 2010, 12:24 AM	#59
Alec Wheeler New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 20	yeah, I haven't heard of any tree protection programs. I could be wrong, i guess. I know who to ask about it though. anywho, the car is all fixed up and ready to shoot. gotta clean the interior though.