Film Look at 24p reached at DVinfo.net

Plamen Petrov · May 18th, 2005, 05:39 AM

Hello there!
I found a very nice and easy solution for everybody who uses DV or miniDV cam PAL 25p and wants to get the 24p film motion/look.
So, there is a program called WinAvi Video Capture which is very very cool. It can capture video in almost any video format. Unfortunately, no DV AVI format,but believe me,this is not problem for the quality! I use WinAvi products for a long time ago,and I have to say that they are grate! You can capture to AVI with any codec you have installed. Therefore just for the first time I choosed video capture to SVCD format so that to see the result at all. The general option I use is that it is possible to set the frame rate!!! I checked "24 frames". Then I captured a footage from my miniDV cam /JVC GR DVL520A - PAL 25p/ to svcd 24p format instead of 25p. The result is really amaizing: after some filter processing in Vegas I rendered out to PAL SVCD at PREVIEW quality project - just for faster render,so that to see the motion of the footage. YES, the result is so fine,and if I try with BEST quality project,the result will be so much better. The footage really looks 24p film natural - no strobes,no anything bad. Just try it!
If somebody knows a better video capture software which can change the frame rate of capturing, just tell me about it!
P.S.: I mean no frame rate converter but frame rate capturer,ok? The difference is big!!!

Andrew Sohn · May 18th, 2005, 01:53 PM

Could this be acomplished with NTSC?

Plamen Petrov · May 18th, 2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Sohn

Could this be acomplished with NTSC?

Of course,there is an option for both PAL and NTSC,4:3 and 16:9,etc...
WInAvi is a great company,its video converter is the best I know just in approx. 2MB only! Also, it support subtitles if you need to convert a movie. Now the Video Capture is more than you can expect.

Rob Lohman · May 25th, 2005, 04:31 AM

Plamen, in my opinion this is not a good idea, let me explain:

1. you CANNOT see the difference between 25p to 24p

2. all the software does is CONVERT your footage from 25p to 24p, any NLE etc. can do this as well

3. SVCD/MPEG2 is lower quality than DV AVI

Quote:

P.S.: I really mean no frame rate converter but frame rate capturer,ok? The difference is big!!! So,any suggestions?

That is incorrect. A DV camera ALWAYS records at 25 fps (for PAL), there is
NOTHING you can do to change this. This is not an analog capture where you
could interpret the footage at different framerates!

ALL the capture does is simply drop 1 frame every second, that is it. Again,
you cannot see the difference between 24 or 25 fps.

What happens if you do everything EXACTLY the same but capture at 25 fps?
I bet it looks the same. The look is probably more due to the MPEG-2 encoding
at lower resolution (480 x 576 instead of 720 x 576) creating a softer looking
frame (the harsh look of video is often contributing to not looking like film).

Plamen Petrov · May 25th, 2005, 07:20 AM

Noooo,you just have to see ti,there is a visual difference! The look becomes more autenthical in comparison of clear dv avi format. And the general difference is about the motion!!! I discused with many people arround, so that you are not the one who says this kind of suggestions. The most of all, I think, is that sometimes all we MUST see through our eyes, not through the books,manuals and theory only.
Also, my miniDV cam is interlaced,but after capturing by the method mentioned here by me,the newly captured video is in progressive scan!
The theory about missing 25-th frame in 24fps is not exactly added here. I told you - this is not a convertion but capture!!! Yes, you said that this is not analog capture,but believe me the result is EXACTLY like that,i.e. there is not a loss of any 25th frame! Every newly created 24fps are in an even distribution,in uniform motion!!!!!!
About SVCD - I said that I just tried it in that format for first time. But now I capture to dv avi or some other formats depending of my conceptions... Because sometimes this is so much better way to reach some old vision instead of filters and effects, are you agree with me?

Rob Lohman · May 26th, 2005, 02:27 AM

I agree that there are always other methods that may have interesting
effects. I just don't see how this can make any difference. But if I can find
some time (which is problematic), I will see if I can run some tests myself.

Maxime Tremblay · May 29th, 2005, 08:18 AM

I can't find the 24p option. Do you have to buy the full version to get it?

Plamen Petrov · May 29th, 2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxime Tremblay

I can't find the 24p option. Do you have to buy the full version to get it?

After choosing a format, go to the ENCODE page of the program, and then you will see SOURCE TARGET RATE at the right upper side. Just choose 24!!! The captured file will be real 24p.

Andrew Sohn · May 30th, 2005, 11:38 AM

I can't find it either

Rob Lohman · June 1st, 2005, 04:31 AM

Plamen: I've merged your two threads into one.

Jay Cowley · June 28th, 2005, 02:00 PM

I did this and was actually quite impressed with the film look, but the quality was crap. I used MPEG 2 and it looked horrible. The avi choice would only let me use Divx codec, (not uncompressed) and the Divx codec didn't work.

How can I get a decent avi codec to work with this that is similar quality to DV Encoder

Ash Greyson · June 28th, 2005, 03:30 PM

When you go from PAL to 24P it is a lot easier... there is but one extra frame to deal with. I am not sure I understand the appication here, I guess you are just saying you can output to MPEG2 for DVD authoring? If that is the can you can make a DVD with true 24P just as easy... you just need a Progressive DVD player and a TV that does 480p

ash =o)

Ash Greyson · June 28th, 2005, 03:39 PM

I just went to the web page and this is a consumer video transfer product. When you set the frame rate you are doing nothing other than deteriorating the video, there is no pulldown or deinterlacing, etc. It may look OK on a PAL conversion because you are taking 25fps, dropping out a frame, then spreading the 24 frames across a second.

This product is no different than say taking Quicktime and exporting a MOV file at 24 frames instead of 30... it is a reduction in quality to save space, there is no conversion going on...

ash =o)

David Jimerson · July 18th, 2005, 05:39 PM

I agree -- I looked at this months ago, and the results were awful.

However, I DISagree that "any NLE" can do this conversion. I know that Vegas can. I'm a little fuzzy on whether Liquid Edition 6.1 can (devotees tell me it can, but I"m skeptical, becuase 24p isn't their thing). I don't think anything else can without plugins or hardware help.

May 18th, 2005, 05:39 AM	#1
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Film Look at 24p reached Hello there! I found a very nice and easy solution for everybody who uses DV or miniDV cam PAL 25p and wants to get the 24p film motion/look. So, there is a program called WinAvi Video Capture which is very very cool. It can capture video in almost any video format. Unfortunately, no DV AVI format,but believe me,this is not problem for the quality! I use WinAvi products for a long time ago,and I have to say that they are grate! You can capture to AVI with any codec you have installed. Therefore just for the first time I choosed video capture to SVCD format so that to see the result at all. The general option I use is that it is possible to set the frame rate!!! I checked "24 frames". Then I captured a footage from my miniDV cam /JVC GR DVL520A - PAL 25p/ to svcd 24p format instead of 25p. The result is really amaizing: after some filter processing in Vegas I rendered out to PAL SVCD at PREVIEW quality project - just for faster render,so that to see the motion of the footage. YES, the result is so fine,and if I try with BEST quality project,the result will be so much better. The footage really looks 24p film natural - no strobes,no anything bad. Just try it! If somebody knows a better video capture software which can change the frame rate of capturing, just tell me about it! P.S.: I mean no frame rate converter but frame rate capturer,ok? The difference is big!!!

May 26th, 2005, 02:27 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I agree that there are always other methods that may have interesting effects. I just don't see how this can make any difference. But if I can find some time (which is problematic), I will see if I can run some tests myself. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 1st, 2005, 04:31 AM	#10
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Plamen: I've merged your two threads into one. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 18th, 2005, 05:39 PM	#14
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	I agree -- I looked at this months ago, and the results were awful. However, I DISagree that "any NLE" can do this conversion. I know that Vegas can. I'm a little fuzzy on whether Liquid Edition 6.1 can (devotees tell me it can, but I"m skeptical, becuase 24p isn't their thing). I don't think anything else can without plugins or hardware help. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

May 18th, 2005, 01:53 PM	#2
Andrew Sohn Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Jersey - NYC Posts: 26	Could this be acomplished with NTSC?

May 25th, 2005, 07:20 AM	#5
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Noooo,you just have to see ti,there is a visual difference! The look becomes more autenthical in comparison of clear dv avi format. And the general difference is about the motion!!! I discused with many people arround, so that you are not the one who says this kind of suggestions. The most of all, I think, is that sometimes all we MUST see through our eyes, not through the books,manuals and theory only. Also, my miniDV cam is interlaced,but after capturing by the method mentioned here by me,the newly captured video is in progressive scan! The theory about missing 25-th frame in 24fps is not exactly added here. I told you - this is not a convertion but capture!!! Yes, you said that this is not analog capture,but believe me the result is EXACTLY like that,i.e. there is not a loss of any 25th frame! Every newly created 24fps are in an even distribution,in uniform motion!!!!!! About SVCD - I said that I just tried it in that format for first time. But now I capture to dv avi or some other formats depending of my conceptions... Because sometimes this is so much better way to reach some old vision instead of filters and effects, are you agree with me?

May 29th, 2005, 08:18 AM	#7
Maxime Tremblay Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3	I can't find the 24p option. Do you have to buy the full version to get it?

May 30th, 2005, 11:38 AM	#9
Andrew Sohn Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Jersey - NYC Posts: 26	I can't find it either

June 28th, 2005, 02:00 PM	#11
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	I did this and was actually quite impressed with the film look, but the quality was crap. I used MPEG 2 and it looked horrible. The avi choice would only let me use Divx codec, (not uncompressed) and the Divx codec didn't work. How can I get a decent avi codec to work with this that is similar quality to DV Encoder

June 28th, 2005, 03:30 PM	#12
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	When you go from PAL to 24P it is a lot easier... there is but one extra frame to deal with. I am not sure I understand the appication here, I guess you are just saying you can output to MPEG2 for DVD authoring? If that is the can you can make a DVD with true 24P just as easy... you just need a Progressive DVD player and a TV that does 480p ash =o)

June 28th, 2005, 03:39 PM	#13
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I just went to the web page and this is a consumer video transfer product. When you set the frame rate you are doing nothing other than deteriorating the video, there is no pulldown or deinterlacing, etc. It may look OK on a PAL conversion because you are taking 25fps, dropping out a frame, then spreading the 24 frames across a second. This product is no different than say taking Quicktime and exporting a MOV file at 24 frames instead of 30... it is a reduction in quality to save space, there is no conversion going on... ash =o)