Sony's HDR-FX1 using Dvfilm

Adam Rench · December 25th, 2004, 11:52 AM

I'm really considering using my HDR-FX1 with Dvfilm now that they support it. From what I've heard dvfilm does a really good job at creating the film look and then at the same time keep much of it's original quality.

Are there any clips or samples of the FX1 put through dvfilm? I would love to see some!

Adam Rench · December 26th, 2004, 11:35 PM

Well, since no one had responded I thought of this bright idea. I took some of the .m2t clips (taken by the FX1) that I had downloaded and viewed using VLC , and I downloaded the dvfilm maker demo. I have to say that I'm not please at all with the results.

I tried all sorts of different options and my results were always extremely choppy. It did look like the interlacing was gone, but not only was the interlacing gone, but so was half of the movie! It was so choppy that it looked like a slide show.

Am I doing something wrong here? I was able to watch the raw .m2t files with no choppyness whatsoever, but then after I converted these files using Dvfilm Maker into a .mov file, it was unbearable to watch and dissappointing I might add too as I was extremely excited to use Dvfilm Maker.

Anyone know if I'm doing something wrong here?

Graeme Nattress · December 27th, 2004, 09:49 AM

As soon as 60i FX1 footage was available I tried it with my Standards Converter - NTSC to 24p and Film Effects (24p) software for FCP. Things worked best if the HDV video was first turned into fully uncompressed in FCP, although the file sizes are rather large.

The end results, however, were rather nice - with a good smooth motion, just like what I get in Standard Definition, and oh so much nicer than the CF24 mode, which is rather poor IMHO.

Graeme

Adam Rench · December 27th, 2004, 10:24 AM

so you were able to get good results then.. that's good. I will be using Avid Xpress Pro but since they don't offer native editing of HDV yet, I was thinking that I could just pop it into dvfilm maker and then edit it. My camera however is on back order until Mid January :( so I've not been able to test it.

I was so dissapointed though that I was really thinking about selling the FX1 after I get it and test it out a little bit (and if I don't like it) and picking up the panny AG-DVX100 or the XL2. the only thing that I will be using my camera for is indie films.

I should have done more research on cameras before purchasing. I'm kicking myself in the behind for jumping into the purchase like I did.

Graeme, I don't have a MAC or FCP. I'm on a P4 3.2 800fsb HT version. Do you think that I'll be able to get decent "film look" using the hardware I have?

Graeme Nattress · December 27th, 2004, 10:45 AM

I don't know the full DVfilm workflow for HDV - that's new to me, so it's pretty hard to comment. It should work, but I don't know what the editing requirements will be for the footage. You'll need an editor package that supports whatever codec the DVFilm outputs and 23.98p editing.

Graeme

Adam Rench · December 27th, 2004, 11:55 AM

OK. I'll try it in the Avid Xpress Free that I'm learning on now to see if it looks OK.

I've heard a lot about the poor quality of the CineFrame 24 that the FX1 offers, but I heard that it only looks bad on the monitor and not bad after you export it to a DVD or tape. That's something to think about then. :)

Thanks for the reply

Graeme Nattress · December 27th, 2004, 12:14 PM

There's no way it can look bad on the monitor and magically look good on DVD or Tape. It looks bad full stop as the badness comes from how it gets made in the first place inside the camera.

Graeme

Gary McClurg · December 27th, 2004, 12:24 PM

Graeme, have you tried anything with 25f from the pal models.

Graeme Nattress · December 27th, 2004, 12:37 PM

No, not played with PAL models footage yet. From what I've read from other knowledgeables on this board, and other places, the CF25 mode looks better than CF24, but it's still nothing like a real progressive mode in either resolution or other qualities.

Graeme

Barry Green · December 27th, 2004, 01:59 PM

I've used CF30, which should (read: *should*) be the same basic look as CF25 (except that CF25 might look a little bit better due to less compression).

CF30 has the temporal feel of 30P, but it only delivers about as much vertical resolution as a PAL XL2 or DVX: I measured 575 lines. So CF25 will probably be the same, 575 lines of vertical resolution, the same as a standard-def PAL camera. It will, however, offer more horizontal pixels and almost twice the horizontal resolution.

Frank Aalbers · January 30th, 2005, 04:03 AM

Hello !

If you REALLY want to know how well it plays smoothly after DVFilm converts it to 24p, just downsize ithe progressive footage to DV resolution and create a 24p movie. Then look at the result since it will be realtime playable at that res.

I didn't like the clean frame, blended frame, clean frame, blended frame sequence look as result. Too stuttery to my feeling. Specially if you have repeating vertical lines (like a flag) moving sideways on the screen. It's awefull !

Here is an example of a test in 30i:
http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars30i.mov

30i to 24p convert using DVMaker:
http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars30i_to_24p.mov

What true 24p should REALLY look like:
http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars24p.mov

I opted for true 24p

Frank

Eric Gorski · February 11th, 2005, 03:30 AM

non of those links work

December 25th, 2004, 11:52 AM	#1
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Sony's HDR-FX1 using Dvfilm - any samples out there yet? I'm really considering using my HDR-FX1 with Dvfilm now that they support it. From what I've heard dvfilm does a really good job at creating the film look and then at the same time keep much of it's original quality. Are there any clips or samples of the FX1 put through dvfilm? I would love to see some!

December 27th, 2004, 09:49 AM	#3
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	As soon as 60i FX1 footage was available I tried it with my Standards Converter - NTSC to 24p and Film Effects (24p) software for FCP. Things worked best if the HDV video was first turned into fully uncompressed in FCP, although the file sizes are rather large. The end results, however, were rather nice - with a good smooth motion, just like what I get in Standard Definition, and oh so much nicer than the CF24 mode, which is rather poor IMHO. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 27th, 2004, 10:45 AM	#5
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	I don't know the full DVfilm workflow for HDV - that's new to me, so it's pretty hard to comment. It should work, but I don't know what the editing requirements will be for the footage. You'll need an editor package that supports whatever codec the DVFilm outputs and 23.98p editing. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 27th, 2004, 12:14 PM	#7
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	There's no way it can look bad on the monitor and magically look good on DVD or Tape. It looks bad full stop as the badness comes from how it gets made in the first place inside the camera. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 27th, 2004, 12:37 PM	#9
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	No, not played with PAL models footage yet. From what I've read from other knowledgeables on this board, and other places, the CF25 mode looks better than CF24, but it's still nothing like a real progressive mode in either resolution or other qualities. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 26th, 2004, 11:35 PM	#2
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Well, since no one had responded I thought of this bright idea. I took some of the .m2t clips (taken by the FX1) that I had downloaded and viewed using VLC , and I downloaded the dvfilm maker demo. I have to say that I'm not please at all with the results. I tried all sorts of different options and my results were always extremely choppy. It did look like the interlacing was gone, but not only was the interlacing gone, but so was half of the movie! It was so choppy that it looked like a slide show. Am I doing something wrong here? I was able to watch the raw .m2t files with no choppyness whatsoever, but then after I converted these files using Dvfilm Maker into a .mov file, it was unbearable to watch and dissappointing I might add too as I was extremely excited to use Dvfilm Maker. Anyone know if I'm doing something wrong here?

December 27th, 2004, 10:24 AM	#4
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	so you were able to get good results then.. that's good. I will be using Avid Xpress Pro but since they don't offer native editing of HDV yet, I was thinking that I could just pop it into dvfilm maker and then edit it. My camera however is on back order until Mid January :( so I've not been able to test it. I was so dissapointed though that I was really thinking about selling the FX1 after I get it and test it out a little bit (and if I don't like it) and picking up the panny AG-DVX100 or the XL2. the only thing that I will be using my camera for is indie films. I should have done more research on cameras before purchasing. I'm kicking myself in the behind for jumping into the purchase like I did. Graeme, I don't have a MAC or FCP. I'm on a P4 3.2 800fsb HT version. Do you think that I'll be able to get decent "film look" using the hardware I have?

December 27th, 2004, 11:55 AM	#6
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	OK. I'll try it in the Avid Xpress Free that I'm learning on now to see if it looks OK. I've heard a lot about the poor quality of the CineFrame 24 that the FX1 offers, but I heard that it only looks bad on the monitor and not bad after you export it to a DVD or tape. That's something to think about then. :) Thanks for the reply

December 27th, 2004, 12:24 PM	#8
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Graeme, have you tried anything with 25f from the pal models.

December 27th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#10
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I've used CF30, which should (read: should) be the same basic look as CF25 (except that CF25 might look a little bit better due to less compression). CF30 has the temporal feel of 30P, but it only delivers about as much vertical resolution as a PAL XL2 or DVX: I measured 575 lines. So CF25 will probably be the same, 575 lines of vertical resolution, the same as a standard-def PAL camera. It will, however, offer more horizontal pixels and almost twice the horizontal resolution.

January 30th, 2005, 04:03 AM	#11
Frank Aalbers Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakland,CA Posts: 135	Hello ! If you REALLY want to know how well it plays smoothly after DVFilm converts it to 24p, just downsize ithe progressive footage to DV resolution and create a 24p movie. Then look at the result since it will be realtime playable at that res. I didn't like the clean frame, blended frame, clean frame, blended frame sequence look as result. Too stuttery to my feeling. Specially if you have repeating vertical lines (like a flag) moving sideways on the screen. It's awefull ! Here is an example of a test in 30i: http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars30i.mov 30i to 24p convert using DVMaker: http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars30i_to_24p.mov What true 24p should REALLY look like: http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/bars24p.mov I opted for true 24p Frank

February 11th, 2005, 03:30 AM	#12
Eric Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Western Oregon Posts: 138	non of those links work