BBC TopGear Film Look

Simon Wyndham · November 16th, 2004, 05:45 PM

Nice Karel! Looking forward to it!

Jose di Cani · November 17th, 2004, 08:54 AM

COOL Karel,

I can't wait to hear more about this. It is interesting stuff.

Richard Lewis · November 17th, 2004, 10:54 AM

Hey, what a fantastic thread this is turning out to be, and it was all started by meeeeeeee. :D

Looking forward to the info Karel.

Jose di Cani · November 20th, 2004, 12:45 PM

Richard,

You deserve a nice kiss from santa clause in Christmas!!!!!!!

Richard Lewis · November 21st, 2004, 12:59 PM

Yay!! lol

Karel, you’re taking your time with this very exciting info "A couple of surprises..." Cummon, you can't leave us like this.

REPLY, REPLY, REPLY!!

Simon Wyndham · November 21st, 2004, 01:42 PM

Yep! Though don't forget that he's waiting for the BBC guy to let him know the info.

Simon

Richard Lewis · November 21st, 2004, 03:25 PM

Sez he needs to check with him if he can reproduce the email grrrrr.

Karel Bata · November 22nd, 2004, 06:21 AM

Sorry about delay.

I quoted someone without permission here the other day and the admininistrator deleted my post, so I didn't want that to happen again.

I've got permission now. Here's what he wrote:

Hi there, to further add to the information about Top Gear I work as a camera assistant on the show, and I think I safely say they do not use Beta Sp anymore, as they hire in a lot of their stuff from other companies.
They use Digibeta with SDI cards installed to do the filming of the cars outside along with a lot of different filters and lights.
They use sony HD 900s sometimes, but not with the progressive scan feature as I can assure you its not that great!
The stig laps/ and star in the car cameras are just normal digibetas, with pd150s filming inside the car to show the stig/ celebrities face. Then we stick mini single chip cams to the sides of cars which record to DVCam.
The slow motion stuff is done by cameras which they use for filming at wimbledon, or it could be 16mm running at high speed im not too sure about that though.
The main thing about getting the look of the show is that they film all week with experienced DOPs who spend ages lighting and setting up their shots.
But with most things a lot of time and money is spent on the show and this is what makes it look so good.
You can order some tickets from the website and go and watch if you like, they film the studio stuff and star in the car every wednesday, then it goes out the following week.
Look out for Christian Slater on the show next week!
Regards

Hope that helps!

(I bet this kicks off even more debate!)

Simon Wyndham · November 22nd, 2004, 12:06 PM

That's interesting that he mentioned SDI cards installed. I wonder if that means they are taking the raw uncompressed footage directly from the camera head?

Also interesting to hear about the HD900's and any problems with it's progressive scan mode.

Karel Bata · November 22nd, 2004, 12:37 PM

These things are so subjective, and I doubt you'll ever get a definitive answer on questions like that.

I know the engineering dept of somewhere like the BBC will do tests so exhaustive it would drive the rest of us nuts, but when it comes to a 'quality' programme relying on the judgement and experienced eye of a seasoned DoP...

Still, as long as it looks good!

(Just my (relatively) untechnical 2p.)

I'll try asking about the SDI cards.

Richard Lewis · November 22nd, 2004, 01:22 PM

Thanks for the info Karel.

If I have the right idea, I think the SD cards are used to store information as to the set-up of the camera and they are used to customise the look of the picture.
I know that some of the HD cams (including the 900) have this feature.
I read something about the different looks that can be achieved. For example:
LWT’s SMTV live has a kind of orange glow / warm look to their pictures and say another show may need a cleaner more natural look. The cards are used to store these settings.

I don’t think they would be using 16mm for the slow motion. Looks like is going to be the stuff for Wimbledon.

Simon Wyndham · November 22nd, 2004, 04:09 PM

No. The cameras have setup storage anyway.

The SDI cards that you can get for XDCAM allow footage to be taken straight off the camera heads with no compression at the full resolution of the CCD's (subject to SMPTE standards) and 4:2:2 colour space. I would imagine that if they are using add on SDI cards for the Digibetas that it is a similar thing.

... I just had a look around. If they are using the Sony Digibeta cameras they have an optional SDI board that just allows switchable SDI or composite output from the rear of the camera. I cannot find out if that model allows footage direct from the CCD's to be captured.

Richard Lewis · November 23rd, 2004, 03:25 PM

Sounds fascinating Simon, I’ve never encountered that before.

So what are these SDI cards? What’s their capacity, how do they work?

Simon Wyndham · November 23rd, 2004, 04:02 PM

SDI is just an interface standard. It's used for Digibeta etc and there is a high def version as well, to connect the camera, or deck to a computer for uncompressed 4:2:2 10 bit footage transfer.

Miguel Lopez · November 25th, 2004, 08:53 AM

Hello everybody again.

Besides the image quality, the thing that most intrigues me is how they manage to make a show every week with such quality. I mean, in order to record and edit just a whole car test (ie: aston martin vs train) you will need much more than a week. I think (and i hope someone could tell us) that they shoot all summer and then when the session starts they have all the tests done except for the studio, the guests and the stig proofs. That could be the reason why the stig usually drives a different color car.

So this is a matter of how do they manage production.

Anyway i think they are the best outhere.

Bye!

November 17th, 2004, 10:54 AM	#48
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Hey, what a fantastic thread this is turning out to be, and it was all started by meeeeeeee. :D Looking forward to the info Karel. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

November 21st, 2004, 12:59 PM	#50
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Yay!! lol Karel, you’re taking your time with this very exciting info "A couple of surprises..." Cummon, you can't leave us like this. REPLY, REPLY, REPLY!! __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

November 21st, 2004, 03:25 PM	#52
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Sez he needs to check with him if he can reproduce the email grrrrr. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

November 22nd, 2004, 06:21 AM	#53
Karel Bata Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, Antarctica Posts: 199	Sorry about delay. I quoted someone without permission here the other day and the admininistrator deleted my post, so I didn't want that to happen again. I've got permission now. Here's what he wrote: Hi there, to further add to the information about Top Gear I work as a camera assistant on the show, and I think I safely say they do not use Beta Sp anymore, as they hire in a lot of their stuff from other companies. They use Digibeta with SDI cards installed to do the filming of the cars outside along with a lot of different filters and lights. They use sony HD 900s sometimes, but not with the progressive scan feature as I can assure you its not that great! The stig laps/ and star in the car cameras are just normal digibetas, with pd150s filming inside the car to show the stig/ celebrities face. Then we stick mini single chip cams to the sides of cars which record to DVCam. The slow motion stuff is done by cameras which they use for filming at wimbledon, or it could be 16mm running at high speed im not too sure about that though. The main thing about getting the look of the show is that they film all week with experienced DOPs who spend ages lighting and setting up their shots. But with most things a lot of time and money is spent on the show and this is what makes it look so good. You can order some tickets from the website and go and watch if you like, they film the studio stuff and star in the car every wednesday, then it goes out the following week. Look out for Christian Slater on the show next week! Regards Hope that helps! (I bet this kicks off even more debate!) __________________ What are the Alternatives to YouTube?

November 22nd, 2004, 12:37 PM	#55
Karel Bata Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, Antarctica Posts: 199	These things are so subjective, and I doubt you'll ever get a definitive answer on questions like that. I know the engineering dept of somewhere like the BBC will do tests so exhaustive it would drive the rest of us nuts, but when it comes to a 'quality' programme relying on the judgement and experienced eye of a seasoned DoP... Still, as long as it looks good! (Just my (relatively) untechnical 2p.) I'll try asking about the SDI cards. __________________ What are the Alternatives to YouTube?

November 16th, 2004, 05:45 PM	#46
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Nice Karel! Looking forward to it!

November 17th, 2004, 08:54 AM	#47
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	COOL Karel, I can't wait to hear more about this. It is interesting stuff.

November 20th, 2004, 12:45 PM	#49
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	Richard, You deserve a nice kiss from santa clause in Christmas!!!!!!!

November 21st, 2004, 01:42 PM	#51
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yep! Though don't forget that he's waiting for the BBC guy to let him know the info. Simon

November 22nd, 2004, 12:06 PM	#54
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	That's interesting that he mentioned SDI cards installed. I wonder if that means they are taking the raw uncompressed footage directly from the camera head? Also interesting to hear about the HD900's and any problems with it's progressive scan mode.

November 22nd, 2004, 01:22 PM	#56
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Thanks for the info Karel. If I have the right idea, I think the SD cards are used to store information as to the set-up of the camera and they are used to customise the look of the picture. I know that some of the HD cams (including the 900) have this feature. I read something about the different looks that can be achieved. For example: LWT’s SMTV live has a kind of orange glow / warm look to their pictures and say another show may need a cleaner more natural look. The cards are used to store these settings. I don’t think they would be using 16mm for the slow motion. Looks like is going to be the stuff for Wimbledon. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

November 22nd, 2004, 04:09 PM	#57
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	No. The cameras have setup storage anyway. The SDI cards that you can get for XDCAM allow footage to be taken straight off the camera heads with no compression at the full resolution of the CCD's (subject to SMPTE standards) and 4:2:2 colour space. I would imagine that if they are using add on SDI cards for the Digibetas that it is a similar thing. ... I just had a look around. If they are using the Sony Digibeta cameras they have an optional SDI board that just allows switchable SDI or composite output from the rear of the camera. I cannot find out if that model allows footage direct from the CCD's to be captured.

November 23rd, 2004, 03:25 PM	#58
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Sounds fascinating Simon, I’ve never encountered that before. So what are these SDI cards? What’s their capacity, how do they work? __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

November 23rd, 2004, 04:02 PM	#59
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	SDI is just an interface standard. It's used for Digibeta etc and there is a high def version as well, to connect the camera, or deck to a computer for uncompressed 4:2:2 10 bit footage transfer.

November 25th, 2004, 08:53 AM	#60
Miguel Lopez Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 187	Hello everybody again. Besides the image quality, the thing that most intrigues me is how they manage to make a show every week with such quality. I mean, in order to record and edit just a whole car test (ie: aston martin vs train) you will need much more than a week. I think (and i hope someone could tell us) that they shoot all summer and then when the session starts they have all the tests done except for the studio, the guests and the stig proofs. That could be the reason why the stig usually drives a different color car. So this is a matter of how do they manage production. Anyway i think they are the best outhere. Bye!