For what it's worth... at DVinfo.net

Rob Henegar · September 24th, 2004, 03:21 PM

Something interesting to try...

Since a fair amount of actual film-based work is done with tungsten balanced film and an 85 filter, I figured I'd try the same thing with my XL1S.

I happened to have an 85N9 from some previous film work, so I switched the camera to the indoor white balance setting and slapped the filter on while I was outdoors on a bright day.

I wasn't particularly going for a "film" look, and I wasn't shooting in frame mode, so this may be a little off-topic, but I like the way the colors came out using the filter as opposed to not using it and balancing for outdoors. Don't know why... maybe the camera just responds differently in the indoor setting. To me, it looked a lot more "filmic" than the normal setting without the filter -- everything appeared a little smoother and more pleasing.

Plus the ND9 let me stay away from the built-in ND and shoot at f5.6 (the stock lens seems to do pretty well at that f-stop) so I got a pretty good DOF.

I'll post a few screen grabs when I can.

--R

Aaron Shaw · September 24th, 2004, 05:00 PM

I'm interested in seeing some screengrabs once you have some time to post them :).

Rob Henegar · September 25th, 2004, 07:20 PM

You can see some of the images here.

http://www.planet3media.com/image_tests/image_tests.htm

The look might not suit your taste, but I like it, so I thought I'd share.

--R

Rob Simon · October 1st, 2004, 03:15 PM

I like the look too!

Is that an expensive filter that an average Joe can't get their hands on? Other than the ND9, what does the filter? (i.e. what does the "85" mean?)

Charles Papert · October 1st, 2004, 09:57 PM

85 is the designation for converting 5600 degrees Kelvin (i.e. outdoor midday light) to 3200 degrees Kelvin (i.e. tungsten light). It's an orange tinted filter, similar to Full CTO gel used for lighting purposes.

Rob, it would be great to see the same scene shot with the 85 and then without (but white balanced for daylight).

Rob Henegar · October 2nd, 2004, 12:53 PM

I'll capture some images without the filter for comparison.

That actually brings up a question in my mind. Is there any particular reason that the film industry chooses to use indoor film with an 85 filter on it when they're shooting outdoors, instead of just using outdoor film?

I mean, you hear that scenario (indoor film with 85 filter) quite a bit, so I'm wondering if there's any inherent creative choice involved in selecting that setup, or if it's just a matter of having bought a lot of a certain type of film and needing using it up?

Ric Dixon · October 2nd, 2004, 01:20 PM

The use of tungsten film for exteriors is a hold-over from the earlier days of Hollywood when the vast majority of cinema was shot on sound stages, even exteriors. Back in those early days there were few cinema stocks dedicated for sunlight. All the DoPs and Directors were used to the look of tungsten, knew how to light it and expose for it, so they just filtered it and stuck with it, long after shooting exteriors on location became the norm.

-Ric

Rob Henegar · October 2nd, 2004, 10:37 PM

I've posted a couple of images for comparison -- one with the filter and one without. The shots were taken about a minute apart at around 5:30 in the evening.

Here's the link:

http://planet3media.com/image_tests/comparison.htm

There's not a lot of difference between the two. I personally like it better with the filter on, but that's just my preference. I'm going to have to shoot a few more tests under different conditions to see how it works out.

--R

Nick Hiltgen · October 3rd, 2004, 12:06 AM

Rob that's pretty cool, I've personally sat aside and laughed at all thsoe guys who bought 85 filters for their DV camera's but it's an interesting look. I wonder if you can mimic it buy white balancing to a very slightly orange white card. (the filtered image looked a little bit cooler and darker to me)

September 24th, 2004, 03:21 PM	#1
Rob Henegar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 33	For what it's worth... Something interesting to try... Since a fair amount of actual film-based work is done with tungsten balanced film and an 85 filter, I figured I'd try the same thing with my XL1S. I happened to have an 85N9 from some previous film work, so I switched the camera to the indoor white balance setting and slapped the filter on while I was outdoors on a bright day. I wasn't particularly going for a "film" look, and I wasn't shooting in frame mode, so this may be a little off-topic, but I like the way the colors came out using the filter as opposed to not using it and balancing for outdoors. Don't know why... maybe the camera just responds differently in the indoor setting. To me, it looked a lot more "filmic" than the normal setting without the filter -- everything appeared a little smoother and more pleasing. Plus the ND9 let me stay away from the built-in ND and shoot at f5.6 (the stock lens seems to do pretty well at that f-stop) so I got a pretty good DOF. I'll post a few screen grabs when I can. --R

October 1st, 2004, 03:15 PM	#4
Rob Simon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 37	I like the look too! Is that an expensive filter that an average Joe can't get their hands on? Other than the ND9, what does the filter? (i.e. what does the "85" mean?) __________________ "Shoot them all. Let FCE sort 'em out"

October 1st, 2004, 09:57 PM	#5
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	85 is the designation for converting 5600 degrees Kelvin (i.e. outdoor midday light) to 3200 degrees Kelvin (i.e. tungsten light). It's an orange tinted filter, similar to Full CTO gel used for lighting purposes. Rob, it would be great to see the same scene shot with the 85 and then without (but white balanced for daylight). __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 24th, 2004, 05:00 PM	#2
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	I'm interested in seeing some screengrabs once you have some time to post them :).

September 25th, 2004, 07:20 PM	#3
Rob Henegar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 33	You can see some of the images here. http://www.planet3media.com/image_tests/image_tests.htm The look might not suit your taste, but I like it, so I thought I'd share. --R

October 2nd, 2004, 12:53 PM	#6
Rob Henegar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 33	I'll capture some images without the filter for comparison. That actually brings up a question in my mind. Is there any particular reason that the film industry chooses to use indoor film with an 85 filter on it when they're shooting outdoors, instead of just using outdoor film? I mean, you hear that scenario (indoor film with 85 filter) quite a bit, so I'm wondering if there's any inherent creative choice involved in selecting that setup, or if it's just a matter of having bought a lot of a certain type of film and needing using it up?

October 2nd, 2004, 01:20 PM	#7
Ric Dixon Tourist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Albuquerque NM, USA Posts: 3	The use of tungsten film for exteriors is a hold-over from the earlier days of Hollywood when the vast majority of cinema was shot on sound stages, even exteriors. Back in those early days there were few cinema stocks dedicated for sunlight. All the DoPs and Directors were used to the look of tungsten, knew how to light it and expose for it, so they just filtered it and stuck with it, long after shooting exteriors on location became the norm. -Ric

October 2nd, 2004, 10:37 PM	#8
Rob Henegar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 33	I've posted a couple of images for comparison -- one with the filter and one without. The shots were taken about a minute apart at around 5:30 in the evening. Here's the link: http://planet3media.com/image_tests/comparison.htm There's not a lot of difference between the two. I personally like it better with the filter on, but that's just my preference. I'm going to have to shoot a few more tests under different conditions to see how it works out. --R

October 3rd, 2004, 12:06 AM	#9
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Rob that's pretty cool, I've personally sat aside and laughed at all thsoe guys who bought 85 filters for their DV camera's but it's an interesting look. I wonder if you can mimic it buy white balancing to a very slightly orange white card. (the filtered image looked a little bit cooler and darker to me)