Black Hawk Down look? at DVinfo.net

blugill69 · July 20th, 2002, 05:33 PM

How can you achieve the BHD look?
Camera settings? Software? Filters?

Casey Visco · July 20th, 2002, 11:34 PM

well Black Hawk has several different "looks" depending upon the location, etc. As far as DV goes, i think its easier to create this style of imagery in post. Im not sure if its a good practice, but it works for me...i've fallen in to the habit of shooting manual with the camera, just worrying about the focus, depth of field, light levels etc....coloring i do purely in the edit bay.

This also ensures that you wont be screwing up any footage, as you have the standard DV image still on tape, and you can make as many different versions of a scene as you want.

How to emulate those looks exactly? well the recipe will differ depending upon the source imagery so there is no way to give any hard information here. My only advice would be to get the dvd, pause it on a frame you like, and just soak up the image, examine every detail...figure out the black level, how much saturation it has, if its tinted or shifted towards a certain color, etc.

A word of caution though, only change the look of a shot if it adds something to how the shot is perceived, or if it adds to the content or storyline. For example the BHD look in most cases is not appropriate for a romantic movie ;)

blugill69 · July 21st, 2002, 09:08 AM

Thanks!
I understand more about the post stuff than the actual shooting.
So I had planned on your advice and shoot as clean as possible and paying attention to what you said (focus, etc.)
I am basically going to be a walking movie studio when my laptop gets here in late August.
I just got my Canon XL1s Friday, Boris RED, Avid 3.0 powerpack with the 3.5 upgrade, the laptop is a Alienware Area 51m so I can edit at *ahem* work *ahem* hehehe!
I want to do my first short all by myself, no actors but me, no anybody but me.
To me it makes sense that if I can't do it by myself to start why should I get anyone else involved and sell the whole lot.

Chris Hurd · July 21st, 2002, 11:18 AM

Pick up a copy of Cinefex magazine, issue #89, it's all about the Black Hawk Down look. Explains everything in detail.

Casey Visco · July 21st, 2002, 11:56 AM

I have the issue buried somewhere, but i seem to recall it saying that Idziak creates his own custom grad filters for a lot of the shots. Which accounts for a lot of the stylization of the film. Now that's a skill i'd like to learn!

blugill69 · July 21st, 2002, 08:18 PM

I've just installed Avid 3.5 today and started playing with the tutorial. I got a heavy solid red eyeball shot in the tutorial and messed with the color correction tools and got a near BHD look with it!
What a powerful tool!!!!!
It took a few minutes to get the controls down but once I had them it was easy!

Chris Ferrer · July 26th, 2002, 06:22 PM

If you watch the "extras" at the end of the DVD (BHD) they will walk you through how they shot most the scenes. The most interesting effect in my opinion was shot using a 45 degree shutter (I believe that was the angle they said???) which gave that slightly choppy effect which looks soooo cool!

too bad the XL1s doesnt have a button for that....

Chris

Casey Visco · July 27th, 2002, 08:26 AM

Chris, you can achieve the same effect with a very fast "shutter speed" on a video camera. Film camera shutters are simply rotating discs, with a "pie peice" cut out of them at varying angles to expose the image. A 45 degree shutter simply means that the image is exposed for 12.5% of the shutters rotation.

Chris Ferrer · July 27th, 2002, 08:33 AM

Casey, any particulars or just crank it up as fast as she will go? I guess what I am trying to say is, do you have to be panning or zoomed in, frame movie mode, etc?

I am gonna have to go try this now!

Casey Visco · July 27th, 2002, 10:20 AM

just experiment to taste...i doubt you'd need to crank it as high as it'll go. no particulars or formulas...although i must say the effect works best on dirt-rocketing explosions =D but unless you're a pyrotechnics expert i wouldn't advise trying to film or make those.

i would personally use frame mode, other than that just try some different types of footage. obviously you need a good deal of motion in the shot to make the fast shutter speed apparent.

Chris Ferrer · July 27th, 2002, 10:39 AM

Great! thanks for the info, now I just need to find something to try it out on.

Shawn McBee · August 6th, 2002, 12:24 AM

A lot of the same motion effects used in Black Hawk Down can also be seen in Gladiator's battle scenes. The big one at the beginning (especially shots without Russel Crowe in them -- the troops in the mud, etc) and the coliseum match with the tigers.

I think it works well with anything that's supposed to feel chaotic and hectic. Maybe even in a scene like the aftermath of a car accident. That wandering around, trying to get your bearings kinda feeling could be heightened pretty well with that. Though I've probably got car accident's on my mind because I just got in one a couple hours ago. (Don't worry, everyone's fine).

Anyway, just a thought.

-Shawn

Don Donatello · August 7th, 2002, 09:10 AM

> The most interesting effect in my opinion was shot using a 45 >degree shutter (I believe that was the angle they said???) >which gave that slightly choppy effect which looks soooo cool!
>too bad the XL1s doesnt have a button for that....

most film camera's have a 180 degree shutter =1/48 shutter speed .
90 degree shutter =1/100 shutter speed
45 degreeshutter = 1/200

you might try using around 1/200 or 1/250th shutter speed on the XL

Chris Ferrer · August 7th, 2002, 11:40 AM

I will definitely give that a try! I just need to find something with that has an interesting motion to it... to capture the effect!

Chris

Paul Sedillo · August 10th, 2002, 12:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by blugill69 : Thanks!
I understand more about the post stuff than the actual shooting.
So I had planned on your advice and shoot as clean as possible and paying attention to what you said (focus, etc.)
I am basically going to be a walking movie studio when my laptop gets here in late August.
I just got my Canon XL1s Friday, Boris RED, Avid 3.0 powerpack with the 3.5 upgrade, the laptop is a Alienware Area 51m so I can edit at *ahem* work *ahem* hehehe!
I want to do my first short all by myself, no actors but me, no anybody but me.
To me it makes sense that if I can't do it by myself to start why should I get anyone else involved and sell the whole lot. -->>>

Have you had a chance to work with Boris Red yet? I am looking for feedback on this product. It seems to be one heck of a package.

July 20th, 2002, 05:33 PM	#1
blugill69 New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12	Black Hawk Down look? How can you achieve the BHD look? Camera settings? Software? Filters?

July 20th, 2002, 11:34 PM	#2
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	well Black Hawk has several different "looks" depending upon the location, etc. As far as DV goes, i think its easier to create this style of imagery in post. Im not sure if its a good practice, but it works for me...i've fallen in to the habit of shooting manual with the camera, just worrying about the focus, depth of field, light levels etc....coloring i do purely in the edit bay. This also ensures that you wont be screwing up any footage, as you have the standard DV image still on tape, and you can make as many different versions of a scene as you want. How to emulate those looks exactly? well the recipe will differ depending upon the source imagery so there is no way to give any hard information here. My only advice would be to get the dvd, pause it on a frame you like, and just soak up the image, examine every detail...figure out the black level, how much saturation it has, if its tinted or shifted towards a certain color, etc. A word of caution though, only change the look of a shot if it adds something to how the shot is perceived, or if it adds to the content or storyline. For example the BHD look in most cases is not appropriate for a romantic movie ;) __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

July 21st, 2002, 11:18 AM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Pick up a copy of Cinefex magazine, issue #89, it's all about the Black Hawk Down look. Explains everything in detail. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 21st, 2002, 11:56 AM	#5
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	I have the issue buried somewhere, but i seem to recall it saying that Idziak creates his own custom grad filters for a lot of the shots. Which accounts for a lot of the stylization of the film. Now that's a skill i'd like to learn! __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

July 27th, 2002, 10:20 AM	#10
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	just experiment to taste...i doubt you'd need to crank it as high as it'll go. no particulars or formulas...although i must say the effect works best on dirt-rocketing explosions =D but unless you're a pyrotechnics expert i wouldn't advise trying to film or make those. i would personally use frame mode, other than that just try some different types of footage. obviously you need a good deal of motion in the shot to make the fast shutter speed apparent. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

July 21st, 2002, 09:08 AM	#3
blugill69 New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12	Thanks! I understand more about the post stuff than the actual shooting. So I had planned on your advice and shoot as clean as possible and paying attention to what you said (focus, etc.) I am basically going to be a walking movie studio when my laptop gets here in late August. I just got my Canon XL1s Friday, Boris RED, Avid 3.0 powerpack with the 3.5 upgrade, the laptop is a Alienware Area 51m so I can edit at ahem work ahem hehehe! I want to do my first short all by myself, no actors but me, no anybody but me. To me it makes sense that if I can't do it by myself to start why should I get anyone else involved and sell the whole lot.

July 21st, 2002, 08:18 PM	#6
blugill69 New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12	I've just installed Avid 3.5 today and started playing with the tutorial. I got a heavy solid red eyeball shot in the tutorial and messed with the color correction tools and got a near BHD look with it! What a powerful tool!!!!! It took a few minutes to get the controls down but once I had them it was easy!

July 26th, 2002, 06:22 PM	#7
Chris Ferrer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Durham Posts: 116	If you watch the "extras" at the end of the DVD (BHD) they will walk you through how they shot most the scenes. The most interesting effect in my opinion was shot using a 45 degree shutter (I believe that was the angle they said???) which gave that slightly choppy effect which looks soooo cool! too bad the XL1s doesnt have a button for that.... Chris

July 27th, 2002, 08:26 AM	#8
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	Chris, you can achieve the same effect with a very fast "shutter speed" on a video camera. Film camera shutters are simply rotating discs, with a "pie peice" cut out of them at varying angles to expose the image. A 45 degree shutter simply means that the image is exposed for 12.5% of the shutters rotation. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

July 27th, 2002, 08:33 AM	#9
Chris Ferrer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Durham Posts: 116	Casey, any particulars or just crank it up as fast as she will go? I guess what I am trying to say is, do you have to be panning or zoomed in, frame movie mode, etc? I am gonna have to go try this now!

July 27th, 2002, 10:39 AM	#11
Chris Ferrer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Durham Posts: 116	Great! thanks for the info, now I just need to find something to try it out on.

August 6th, 2002, 12:24 AM	#12
Shawn McBee Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 69	A lot of the same motion effects used in Black Hawk Down can also be seen in Gladiator's battle scenes. The big one at the beginning (especially shots without Russel Crowe in them -- the troops in the mud, etc) and the coliseum match with the tigers. I think it works well with anything that's supposed to feel chaotic and hectic. Maybe even in a scene like the aftermath of a car accident. That wandering around, trying to get your bearings kinda feeling could be heightened pretty well with that. Though I've probably got car accident's on my mind because I just got in one a couple hours ago. (Don't worry, everyone's fine). Anyway, just a thought. -Shawn __________________ "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." -Mark Twain

August 7th, 2002, 09:10 AM	#13
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	> The most interesting effect in my opinion was shot using a 45 >degree shutter (I believe that was the angle they said???) >which gave that slightly choppy effect which looks soooo cool! >too bad the XL1s doesnt have a button for that.... most film camera's have a 180 degree shutter =1/48 shutter speed . 90 degree shutter =1/100 shutter speed 45 degreeshutter = 1/200 you might try using around 1/200 or 1/250th shutter speed on the XL

August 7th, 2002, 11:40 AM	#14
Chris Ferrer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Durham Posts: 116	I will definitely give that a try! I just need to find something with that has an interesting motion to it... to capture the effect! Chris

August 10th, 2002, 12:50 PM	#15
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by blugill69 : Thanks! I understand more about the post stuff than the actual shooting. So I had planned on your advice and shoot as clean as possible and paying attention to what you said (focus, etc.) I am basically going to be a walking movie studio when my laptop gets here in late August. I just got my Canon XL1s Friday, Boris RED, Avid 3.0 powerpack with the 3.5 upgrade, the laptop is a Alienware Area 51m so I can edit at ahem work ahem hehehe! I want to do my first short all by myself, no actors but me, no anybody but me. To me it makes sense that if I can't do it by myself to start why should I get anyone else involved and sell the whole lot. -->>> Have you had a chance to work with Boris Red yet? I am looking for feedback on this product. It seems to be one heck of a package. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas