Magic Bullet or 24p? How better the 24p is? at DVinfo.net

Gustavo Godinho · March 29th, 2004, 11:07 PM

Ok, 24p is better. But is it possible for a Magic Bullet footage to look like a lot to a 24p one?

Do you know any link to a good Magic Bullet sample video (as deinterlacer)?

Sharon Fraats · March 30th, 2004, 12:24 AM

Try this article....

http://dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/christiansen0503

Kevin Burnfield · March 31st, 2004, 10:42 AM

I heard from a couple of people that a MAJOR issue with the 24p cameras is that you must be VERY careful moving the camera and panning.

There are a lot of video stuttering issues it seems.

Barry Green · March 31st, 2004, 12:37 PM

The same issues apply when shooting film.

The same issues would apply if you tried to convert 60i to 24p.

In all cases, you have to move the camera like a film camera, or risk getting high levels of strobing.

Anthony Meluso · March 31st, 2004, 02:26 PM

Just a question about moving the camera like a film camera. Would dolly shots produces this strobbing or does this imply more towards fast pans and such.

Thanks

Gustavo Godinho · March 31st, 2004, 02:36 PM

What about simple movements of the actors? Is it true that even with actors Magic Bullet can be a little strobo (which means that strobo can easily be noticed, thought may not look TOO annoying)?

Which one is nearest to the "danger" of strobo effect: MB or 24p? Anybody can answer this?

Barry Green · April 1st, 2004, 12:36 AM

It all depends on how much they move.

Magic Bullet tries to simulate 24 frames per second. The closer and more accurate it is, the more "strobing" you're going to see.

All camera movement, or, well, any type of movement, whether it's from the camera or an actor or whatever, is capable of causing strobing. You never see it in regular video because regular video is recording 100% of the time -- shooting 60 fields at 1/60 of a second, there is never a moment in time when the camera isn't recording motion. But with film or with 24P video, the camera is "blind" fully half the time. Motion that occurs will be blurred in the frame while it's exposed, and then non-existent during the "blind time", and then pick up again on the next frame -- where it will have moved from where it left off on the last frame. Hence strobing.

The effect is similar to a strobe light. You are moving fluidly, but the short exposure of the strobe makes your movement appear jumpy and staccato.

The same strobing effect is present in feature films, it's just that the camera operators have gotten very skilled in distracting your attention so you don't notice it. Watch the first 10 minutes of the movie "Network" and you'll see the most jarring strobing you'll ever likely see in any movie -- whenever someone's walking through the network offices, the camera tracks with them and the walls and doorframes behind them will strobe VIOLENTLY. But, if you're watching the actor, they stay basically stable in the center of the frame as the camera pans with them, so your eye doesn't watch the strobing background, so you don't notice it so much. But if you look for it, you'll see it, and it's AMAZINGLY stroby. And this film was nominated for an Oscar for best cinematography, so it's no hack job -- it's the way 24-frame-per-second imaging works. You've got to work around it.

Sharon Fraats · April 1st, 2004, 01:56 AM

My only problem with "The Bullet" is the grain aspect here you go and shoot a fine piece of artwork then all "The Bullet" does is actually rearrange your "Pixels" Pixelization is not my cup of tea.

That is why the cameraman is the one who makes the call in my book not the Editor. If you shoot footage that has a compelling look or feel about it and the story line is great it could be shot on VHS for that matter.

The best movie I give for this is “Reservoir Dogs” Yeah! It’s good bloody mean and down right good setting the record for the most time F#@K was used. Yet, did you notice that it really was only shot in one location and for that matter do you see all the cops or the actual heist? Think of it one location where there was not much around the scene if you recall however you remember the way the action went. That’s filmmaking.

Trevor Trombley · April 26th, 2004, 10:11 AM

Perhaps using foreground elements will lessen the noticeable look of strobing.

If you are following a character along the street, have foreground elements, (with as shallow of depth as possible) passing in front of the main character.

Just an idea.....I'm a novice.

Trevor

Sharon Fraats · April 27th, 2004, 08:59 PM

Trevor

I like the idea of action in the foreground it seems that Directors or Producers feel that it detracts from the scene. Whereas you see it movies all the time people passing through the main frame even going on to having the camera catching the action.

March 29th, 2004, 11:07 PM	#1
Gustavo Godinho Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belém - Pa - Brazil Posts: 130	Magic Bullet or 24p? How better the 24p is? Ok, 24p is better. But is it possible for a Magic Bullet footage to look like a lot to a 24p one? Do you know any link to a good Magic Bullet sample video (as deinterlacer)? __________________ lml

March 31st, 2004, 02:36 PM	#6
Gustavo Godinho Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belém - Pa - Brazil Posts: 130	What about simple movements of the actors? Is it true that even with actors Magic Bullet can be a little strobo (which means that strobo can easily be noticed, thought may not look TOO annoying)? Which one is nearest to the "danger" of strobo effect: MB or 24p? Anybody can answer this? __________________ lml

March 30th, 2004, 12:24 AM	#2
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Try this article.... http://dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/christiansen0503

March 31st, 2004, 10:42 AM	#3
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	I heard from a couple of people that a MAJOR issue with the 24p cameras is that you must be VERY careful moving the camera and panning. There are a lot of video stuttering issues it seems.

March 31st, 2004, 12:37 PM	#4
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The same issues apply when shooting film. The same issues would apply if you tried to convert 60i to 24p. In all cases, you have to move the camera like a film camera, or risk getting high levels of strobing.

March 31st, 2004, 02:26 PM	#5
Anthony Meluso Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 53	Just a question about moving the camera like a film camera. Would dolly shots produces this strobbing or does this imply more towards fast pans and such. Thanks

April 1st, 2004, 12:36 AM	#7
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	It all depends on how much they move. Magic Bullet tries to simulate 24 frames per second. The closer and more accurate it is, the more "strobing" you're going to see. All camera movement, or, well, any type of movement, whether it's from the camera or an actor or whatever, is capable of causing strobing. You never see it in regular video because regular video is recording 100% of the time -- shooting 60 fields at 1/60 of a second, there is never a moment in time when the camera isn't recording motion. But with film or with 24P video, the camera is "blind" fully half the time. Motion that occurs will be blurred in the frame while it's exposed, and then non-existent during the "blind time", and then pick up again on the next frame -- where it will have moved from where it left off on the last frame. Hence strobing. The effect is similar to a strobe light. You are moving fluidly, but the short exposure of the strobe makes your movement appear jumpy and staccato. The same strobing effect is present in feature films, it's just that the camera operators have gotten very skilled in distracting your attention so you don't notice it. Watch the first 10 minutes of the movie "Network" and you'll see the most jarring strobing you'll ever likely see in any movie -- whenever someone's walking through the network offices, the camera tracks with them and the walls and doorframes behind them will strobe VIOLENTLY. But, if you're watching the actor, they stay basically stable in the center of the frame as the camera pans with them, so your eye doesn't watch the strobing background, so you don't notice it so much. But if you look for it, you'll see it, and it's AMAZINGLY stroby. And this film was nominated for an Oscar for best cinematography, so it's no hack job -- it's the way 24-frame-per-second imaging works. You've got to work around it.

April 1st, 2004, 01:56 AM	#8
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	My only problem with "The Bullet" is the grain aspect here you go and shoot a fine piece of artwork then all "The Bullet" does is actually rearrange your "Pixels" Pixelization is not my cup of tea. That is why the cameraman is the one who makes the call in my book not the Editor. If you shoot footage that has a compelling look or feel about it and the story line is great it could be shot on VHS for that matter. The best movie I give for this is “Reservoir Dogs” Yeah! It’s good bloody mean and down right good setting the record for the most time F#@K was used. Yet, did you notice that it really was only shot in one location and for that matter do you see all the cops or the actual heist? Think of it one location where there was not much around the scene if you recall however you remember the way the action went. That’s filmmaking.

April 26th, 2004, 10:11 AM	#9
Trevor Trombley Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: kelowna bc Posts: 58	Perhaps using foreground elements will lessen the noticeable look of strobing. If you are following a character along the street, have foreground elements, (with as shallow of depth as possible) passing in front of the main character. Just an idea.....I'm a novice. Trevor

April 27th, 2004, 08:59 PM	#10
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Trevor I like the idea of action in the foreground it seems that Directors or Producers feel that it detracts from the scene. Whereas you see it movies all the time people passing through the main frame even going on to having the camera catching the action.