Another Film Look Technique at DVinfo.net

Mark A. Foley · February 23rd, 2004, 09:33 AM

I saw on another forum a different approach to getting a "film look"

1. Slow the clips down to 50% and render.

2. Bring into a new project and re-set the speed to 200%

....fyi....

Kevin Lee · February 23rd, 2004, 09:51 AM

erhm. whats the logic in that?

Mark A. Foley · February 23rd, 2004, 10:10 AM

Give it a try and see for yourself...then we'll talk logic...:-)

Barry Green · February 23rd, 2004, 12:29 PM

Sounds like taking the long way around to de-interlace...

Mark A. Foley · February 23rd, 2004, 12:31 PM

I was a bit unsure also until I tested a small piece of video....

Gints Klimanis · February 23rd, 2004, 02:16 PM

>1. Slow the clips down to 50% and render.

Render to what format? DV, MJPEG, MPEG2 ?

J. Clayton Stansberry · February 23rd, 2004, 03:27 PM

Will this work for any program?
interesting...

Kevin Burnfield · February 23rd, 2004, 04:26 PM

When you alter speeds (at least in FCP and I'm assuming it's the same for any other NLE), either faster or slower, it does a little something called "Frame Blending" which simply is creating new frames that are little more than crossfades, or simple repeating frames.

I'm guessing that since this would probably smooth out the picture you'll get some sort of overall blending effect that makes it look more like film.

I'm also guessing that, like with most film look techniques, you'd want to shoot at 1/60.

Rob Lohman · February 23rd, 2004, 04:52 PM

It will probably result in resolution and framerate loss though.
Any other people tested this? What were the results?

Scot McPhie · February 24th, 2004, 04:45 PM

Sounds interesting - what is the link to the other forum wher this was first mentioned - are there any examples posted there?
Scot

Scot McPhie · February 25th, 2004, 03:45 PM

I think I found it

http://www.guygraphics.com/index2.html

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM

> When you alter speeds (at least in FCP and I'm assuming
> it's the same for any other NLE), either faster or slower, it
> does a little something called "Frame Blending" which simply
> is creating new frames that are little more than crossfades,
> or simple repeating frames.

Exactly. The nice thing is, in the Motion tab, it is possible to apply Motion Blur to clips without having to change their speed. I can control the strength and the amount of samples. The more samples, the more render time, the smoother it looks.

If I add to this some non-linear luma effect (like Stib's Film Curves) then I get a really very 'film like' result. Well actually what I see is similar to that of film transferred to video.

Applying 'film' curves helps get more contrast from the mids, this especially helps if I underexpose a bit, wich also keeps the highlights from being slammed video style.

It is also possible to use Stib's curves to seperately affect color channels, adding a non-linear tint to the picture. This makes for a really nice effect as seen on many music videos.

Of course, any blurring will --well-- blur the picture a little bit. This might seem like a resolution loss sometimes, but it has the added advantage of reducing noise and chroma artifacts, which is something good if using Stib's Film Curves or something like that with DV-originated material.

So as you see it all kind of fits together, 'film' curves, motion blur, underexposure...

This what I do in the camera:

Sony PDX10 in 16x9 mode, 1/60
Sony WA adapter. It softens the image a bit.
Turn down edge enhancement ('sharpening') to almost a minimum (custom preset).
Set chroma ('color level') to somewhat less than default (custom preset).
Adjust AE point so as to underexpose a bit.
Try not to move the camera too much, almost never zoom.

This is what I do in FCP4:

Set 10-bit YUV processing.
Deinterlace.
Use Stib's Film Curves 1.0 (slightly) and Stib's Simple Levels.
use Too Much Too Soon's Black Restore.
Sometimes desaturate highlights and lowlights.
Sometimes, use Too Much Too Soon's noise reduction. *
Sometimes add saturation with the Proc Amp filter.
Use FCP4's Motion Blur slightly, 4 samples, 100.

* After using Stib's curves to get more contrast from the midtones, noise becomes more visible, so I usually apply some noise reduction algorithm to clean it up a bit. This is probably much worse if you are using a noisier camera.

Stib's and Too Much Too Soon plugs are free:
http://www.digitalzoo.com.au/lunchti...ed_02_free.htm

I would love to post some footage but I can't right now because of bandwidth and space limitations.

Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps.

February 23rd, 2004, 09:33 AM	#1
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Another Film Look Technique I saw on another forum a different approach to getting a "film look" 1. Slow the clips down to 50% and render. 2. Bring into a new project and re-set the speed to 200% ....fyi....

February 23rd, 2004, 03:27 PM	#7
J. Clayton Stansberry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	Will this work for any program? interesting... __________________ I understand everything about nothing.

February 23rd, 2004, 04:52 PM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	It will probably result in resolution and framerate loss though. Any other people tested this? What were the results? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 24th, 2004, 04:45 PM	#10
Scot McPhie Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 27	Sounds interesting - what is the link to the other forum wher this was first mentioned - are there any examples posted there? Scot __________________ http://www.mango-a-gogo.com

February 25th, 2004, 03:45 PM	#11
Scot McPhie Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 27	I think I found it http://www.guygraphics.com/index2.html __________________ http://www.mango-a-gogo.com

February 23rd, 2004, 09:51 AM	#2
Kevin Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 224	erhm. whats the logic in that?

February 23rd, 2004, 10:10 AM	#3
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Give it a try and see for yourself...then we'll talk logic...:-)

February 23rd, 2004, 12:29 PM	#4
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Sounds like taking the long way around to de-interlace...

February 23rd, 2004, 12:31 PM	#5
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	I was a bit unsure also until I tested a small piece of video....

February 23rd, 2004, 02:16 PM	#6
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	>1. Slow the clips down to 50% and render. Render to what format? DV, MJPEG, MPEG2 ?

February 23rd, 2004, 04:26 PM	#8
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	When you alter speeds (at least in FCP and I'm assuming it's the same for any other NLE), either faster or slower, it does a little something called "Frame Blending" which simply is creating new frames that are little more than crossfades, or simple repeating frames. I'm guessing that since this would probably smooth out the picture you'll get some sort of overall blending effect that makes it look more like film. I'm also guessing that, like with most film look techniques, you'd want to shoot at 1/60.

March 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM	#12
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	That's it. Just some motion blur and free plug-ins! > When you alter speeds (at least in FCP and I'm assuming > it's the same for any other NLE), either faster or slower, it > does a little something called "Frame Blending" which simply > is creating new frames that are little more than crossfades, > or simple repeating frames. Exactly. The nice thing is, in the Motion tab, it is possible to apply Motion Blur to clips without having to change their speed. I can control the strength and the amount of samples. The more samples, the more render time, the smoother it looks. If I add to this some non-linear luma effect (like Stib's Film Curves) then I get a really very 'film like' result. Well actually what I see is similar to that of film transferred to video. Applying 'film' curves helps get more contrast from the mids, this especially helps if I underexpose a bit, wich also keeps the highlights from being slammed video style. It is also possible to use Stib's curves to seperately affect color channels, adding a non-linear tint to the picture. This makes for a really nice effect as seen on many music videos. Of course, any blurring will --well-- blur the picture a little bit. This might seem like a resolution loss sometimes, but it has the added advantage of reducing noise and chroma artifacts, which is something good if using Stib's Film Curves or something like that with DV-originated material. So as you see it all kind of fits together, 'film' curves, motion blur, underexposure... This what I do in the camera: Sony PDX10 in 16x9 mode, 1/60 Sony WA adapter. It softens the image a bit. Turn down edge enhancement ('sharpening') to almost a minimum (custom preset). Set chroma ('color level') to somewhat less than default (custom preset). Adjust AE point so as to underexpose a bit. Try not to move the camera too much, almost never zoom. This is what I do in FCP4: Set 10-bit YUV processing. Deinterlace. Use Stib's Film Curves 1.0 (slightly) and Stib's Simple Levels. use Too Much Too Soon's Black Restore. Sometimes desaturate highlights and lowlights. Sometimes, use Too Much Too Soon's noise reduction. * Sometimes add saturation with the Proc Amp filter. Use FCP4's Motion Blur slightly, 4 samples, 100. * After using Stib's curves to get more contrast from the midtones, noise becomes more visible, so I usually apply some noise reduction algorithm to clean it up a bit. This is probably much worse if you are using a noisier camera. Stib's and Too Much Too Soon plugs are free: http://www.digitalzoo.com.au/lunchti...ed_02_free.htm I would love to post some footage but I can't right now because of bandwidth and space limitations. Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.