Super8 questions...

[Helen Bach]

There were a few Super 8 cameras with f/1.2 lenses and possibly f/1 - I remember a Fuji Single 8 camera with an f/1 lens. These are zooms, by the way.

The Leicina Special uses Leica M bayonet lenses, so you could use an f/1 Noctilux - but it is four times the focal length of a 'standard' Super 8 lens.

Cameras that could use C-mount lenses could use the Angenieux f/0.95 lens - so that has to be the fastest lens likely to be found on a Super 8 camera. On Standard 8 you could have the Kern f/0.9 Switar (I have that lens, and still use it occasionally). That's a D-mount lens, and I've never seen a Super 8 camera with a D-mount. It would be possible to convert a Standard 8 D-mount camera to Double Super 8 and someone may have done it. I've given it serious consideration.

Two other things that affect the low light performance are the shutter opening and the viewfinder loss.

Most Super 8 cameras, with the notable exception of the Beaulieu range, have beam splitters for the reflex viewfinder. The B-s have an oscillating mirror and hence no viewfinder loss. The beam splitter sends about a quarter of the light to the viewfinder and three-quarters to the film (there's a lot of variation in those values).

Some cameras had a shutter that was open more than half the time and some less. Some cameras managed to have a 220 deg shutter, some had 170 deg shutters.

Many of the better Super 8 cameras also had 16 2/3 and 25 fps speeds for transfer to PAL video (16 2/3 is 50/3 - three video fields per frame of film).

Best,
Helen

[Dave Largent]

Hi Helen,

What were some of the brands that used the
C-mount lenses?

I notice some of the cams offered 9 fps or 12 fps.
What situations would these frame rates be used
in? I imagine these lower rates were accompanied
by slower shutter speeds.

Anyone know anything about the Bauer brand?
They seem to have made some of the
newer models (~mid-1980s).

And anyone know what is meant by an "XL shutter"
on these cams? Seems to affect low light performance from what I can gather.

[Helen Bach]

Dave,
As far as I remember Beaulieus and Double Super 8 Bolex H-8/converted H-16 cameras used C-mount lenses. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Maybe there was an Elmo...?

The Bauers were remarkable cameras. One of the Bauer features was the ability to shoot time exposures at an automatically-determined frame rate: ie the frame rate was controlled by the exposure requirement. They had strong family ties to Braun Nizo, I think. They were very well made and robust.

The XL shutter refers to the angle - I mentioned it in my previous post, albeit not directly. These were usually the cameras with wider shutter openings than 180 deg - probably at least 220 degree shutters. It's not a huge improvement, but it does offset the viewfinder loss. Canon made a nice range. Nizo also made cameras with wide shutter angles, but didn't show it in the camera designation. I used to have a Canon 1014XL-S but it was stolen in a burglary along with my Beaulieu 7008P. I really miss that Canon, I don't miss the Beaulieu.

12 fps is about the lowest you can go and still achieve smooth-ish motion (when stretch printed or stretched digitally). A lot of animation is effectively shot at 12 fps - only they shoot two frames at once so it is like stretch printed 12 fps live motion. 9 fps? Effects only?

Thinking about it: if you watch a movie shot at 12 fps and stretch printed to 24 fps, you might be seeing every single frame of the original four or six times.

The shutter speed on a movie camera is usually a fixed proportion of the frame rate - around 2:1 (a 180 degree shutter)- so the slower frame rates give correspondingly slower shutter speeds.

I think that Super 8 is right on topic here: it is a viable way of originating DV material.

Best,
Helen

[Joe Gioielli]

Sad to say, I am also infected with the film bug (I also listen to shortwave radio and used to keep fish tanks. I am a geek.)

Frank,

I'm in Florida and the Wal-Marts here do it. I hope the same is true in Mississippi. I've had no trouble with quality or lost shippments.

As far as Pro-8 goes. Yes, they are spendy. Some swear dy them, others at them. Many do telecine conversions. I have never used a service. You can get acceptable results at home.

Teleconversions are expensive, but there is a lot to it. The film is cleaned, scanned or projected, and the color corrected. The equipment is also very expensive.

In order to get an hour and a half DV movie converted to 35mm is about $35,000-$45,000. Ouch.

Try not to buy stuff off ebay. I have bought a ton of film stuff off of ebay. Only two items have worked properly. Olden camera in New York has film stuff, expensive yes, but if can get a gaurentee you are much better off. I think Action Camera in San Francisco might have things as well.

Film is great, but the costs add up fast, buy quality.

[Richard Alvarez]

I've been shooting super 8 for about five years. Dwaynes is the only place in the US that processes Kodachrome. I use YALE for Ekctachrome, and a lab in Pittsburge for Ektachrome and the b&w film stocks.

Transfer to video can be done "Do it yourself" or send it off. There's a place in Houston that transfers, and sells film to video transfer units. It pulls the frame up, scans it to a file and puts it on your computer. So you wind up with all the frames scanned independently.

Shooting super 8 is a great way to get the "film" look. Especially on a short project.

[Joe Gioielli]

Richard is right about Dwaynes. At least that is my understanding as well. But, and I could be wrong so please correct me, that it costs more to send it directly to Dwaynes. I thought it was something like $15 a roll. If you drop it off at Wal-Mart it's about $5. By default, Wally World must be shipping it to Dwaynes for processing anyway.

I wonder why the price difference? Maybe Wal-Mart gets a volume discount? Or am I just wrong about the price at Dwaynes?

By the way, Richard. What lab do you use for B+W? I have a few rolls I need to get developed?

[Jeff Donald]

Kodak's site list 3 organizations still processing K-14 in the US, Qualex (Kodak) lab in Fair Lawn, NJ; Dwayne's Photo in Parsons, KS; and A & I Color Lab in LA, CA. I believe A & I does not do 8mm. But you can purchase prepaid mailers (PK-59) that takes the film to Fair Lawn, NJ.

I was under the impression that all the Qualex K-14 was done in Minneapolis, but it was switched to Fair Lawn about a year ago. You could call the Kodak 800 number to confirm this.

[Dave Largent]

Yeah!!!
Won a S8 on scambay. Seller got it at an auction
but doesn't know anything about it; they're
self-admittedly "dumb when it comes to these things".
About all they knew is "it comes with a handle to
carry it around".
If my luck goes the same as previous scambay
purchases, the thing won't even work.

[Richard Alvarez]

Joe,
Yale in Burbank will process Black and white, so will Cinelab in Boston. Cinelab is a bit cheaper I think. I am looking for my pittsubrgh connection... I'll find it later.

[Dave Largent]

I won another one! An f/1.0!
This seller knew even less than the previous one.
In his listing, the seller stated this auction "is for a
movie camera I think".
I figure I'll have to buy a number of them to get one
that works.

[Helen Bach]

Dave,
Which f/1 camera have you won?
Best,
Helen

[Hugh DiMauro]

Well heck! I learned on Super-8 cameras all through the 1970s. I still have all of my original equipment, lovingly cared for and neatly stored. If anybody knows anything about Super-8, the stuff I still own would nowadays be considered... prosumer. In any case, I still have my Chinon Pacific 12 SMR that has a built in sound syncing mode (through a PC socket flash on the side of the camera) and a 12 to 1 zoom (big deal in the 1970s). It also has direct (on film) sound and a slo mo option plus other neato goodies. To accompany that I have a Sankyo XL 600s (low light) Super-8 sound camera, a Eumig sound projector and the granddaddy of them all, a professional grade Elmo ST 1200 HD Stereo Super-8 projector with two hour film reel capabilities. Oh man, when this equipment first came out it was the stuff DREAMS are made of. OH YES, I almost forgot, I have an Elmo 1012 XL Super-8 sound movie camera as well (If anybody remembers, these were the babies that took the 200' Super-8 sound cartriges that stuck out of the top of the camera like a one-eared Mickey Mouse). From what I've read (corret me if I am wrong, people) Super-8 has the resolution equivalent to mini dv. But yes, there is, allegedly, still a big market out there for Super-8 productions and Kodak even emulates some of it's more popular 35mm stock in Super-8 (like reversal and negative film). Despite my nostalgic blathering, I am unequivocally hooked on DV. And my Super-8 equipment is doing no good sitting unused. If anybody wants to buy it (including editing viewers) let me know. I will let the stuff go cheap. E-mail me! Ciao!

[Dave Largent]

My understanding from reading the Super 8 furum
is that all Kodak *processing* of Super 8 is now
done in Switzerland. They may have a mailing point
in the States, but it is sent out of the country.

[Federico Prieto]

Some news (and oldies) about Super8

The new SuperMag 400 is now available! This is the first ever user reloadable Super 8mm film magazine designed to fit any standard Super 8mm movie camera that will accept an external film magazine. Check out http://supermag400.com for more info!
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Vision2 200T in Super8 cartridges
During the second quarter of 2004 Kodak will replace the Vision 200T films in Super8 cartridges with the new Vision2 200T stock. This stock offers more highlight and shadow detail, improved colour and skin reproduction and are especially good for clean telecine transfers.
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Super-Duper 8
Super-duper 8 is a wide-screen super 8 film format developed by Mitch Perkins in Toronto. The concept behind super-duper 8 is identical to that behind super 16: expose the far edge of the film, normally reserved for sound tracks, thereby capturing a wider image. http://friendlyfirefilms.ca/superduper8.html

[Dave Largent]

If you hurry, you can pick up this Super 8 cam for a
cool $1200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4691