How to knock someone out! at DVinfo.net

G. Lee Gordon · January 3rd, 2009, 09:19 PM

Need some advice on the special effect where a guys jaw goes back and forth and he spits blood. How do I achieve this (slo mo) without whacking the heck out of someone?

George Kroonder · January 4th, 2009, 05:37 AM

Didn't look for the original link, but here's how to get the most realistic results.

YouTube - Slow Motion Punches

Believe this was shot with a Viper if I recall correctly.

George/

G. Lee Gordon · January 4th, 2009, 09:04 AM

George that was awesome! I've knocked out 3 actors trying to get that effect. What is a viper and where/how do i get one... Where those shots done in after effects?

Brian Drysdale · January 4th, 2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Lee Gordon

George that was awesome! I've knocked out 3 actors trying to get that effect. What is a viper and where/how do i get one... Where those shots done in after effects?

The Viper is a 2/3" high end production camera that basically sends out uncompressed data (called Filmstream) from its 3 CCD chips or alternatively you can use a HD SDI output. Its top frame rate is only 60 fps, so I doubt it was used for these slow motion shots.

Something like this is more likely: WEISSCAM

or

High Speed Digital Video, Phantom HD CMOS 2,048x2,048 Camera.

If you only need 60 fps the HVX 200 or the JCV HD 200 or 250 will do the job unless you're into higher budget cameras like the Varicam or the RED.

George Kroonder · January 5th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Brian, you're right believe it was a Phantom; brain misfire...

Anyway, the original video is here: Action Figure | Content | Punches (I like to link to originals).

You'll need some serious overcranking to pull this off. Hard to fake (believably). There may be threads in the Alternative Imaging forums about high speed recording.

Can't really help you much.

George/

Vito DeFilippo · January 5th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Lee Gordon

I've knocked out 3 actors trying to get that effect.

Yikes! Remind me not to act in your movies!

G. Lee Gordon · January 5th, 2009, 08:32 PM

They knew the job was dangerous when they took it! :)

G. Lee Gordon · January 5th, 2009, 08:33 PM

So your saying the shots in the video are real!!! No way. I thought they were done in After Effects or something like that.

Aric Mannion · January 6th, 2009, 01:57 PM

If you are kicking people in the face you can just use a fake leg. But if you are punching them it may have to be the old fashioned way, which is not fun. Remember to use a lot of powder (like baby powder) but LIGHTLY dusted in the hair, which will accentuate the blow -or water depending on the situation.
What I wanted to add though is that Raging Bull has probably the best close up boxing punches on film, where blood even squirts out of his head -I wish I knew how they did that. And my other recommendation is the end fight scene from "Wheels on Meals" where Jackie Chan punches Benny the Jet in the face (by mistake) and Yuen Biao knocks a guy out for real with a vase (...on purpose).

Garrett Low · January 7th, 2009, 12:21 PM

As a martial arts instructor who also choreographs demonstrations and fight scenes I have to say there is no way to have a believable hit without at least some amount of contact. Slow motion punches are the hardest and most painful (for the actors) but if the person taking the punch and the person executing the blow are trained correctly it can be done safely. If you are knocking out your actors they are not doing it correctly. Best advice would be to get a good stunt coordinator and hire some good stunt people.

Aric, have you seen Benny the Jet lately? I ran into him a couple of years ago in Las Vegas (my martial arts instructor worked out with Benny at his Jet Center in LA for a while). Benny is a great guy and is really nice but his face definitely looks like it has been hit a few too many times. Nice to see someone who has an appreciation for the old Golden Harvest movies.

G. Lee Gordon · January 7th, 2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Low

If you are knocking out your actors they are not doing it correctly.

Guys, come on... I was just being facetious. If you look closely at the video the contorts of thier heads seem not humanly possible... I'm throwing down the flag, I'm going to challenge that call. I WANT A SECOND OPINION.

Garrett Low · January 8th, 2009, 01:30 AM

G. Sorry I should have been more explicit. I think the video is fake. I any case I don't think it looks like any hit I've seen. If you look at the head when they get hit the head distorts way too much. You might be able to get a pretty good look if you have a head made that simulates the what happens to the scull when hit. If you have tons of money to spend I'm sure that ILM or Pixar could do up some CGI stuff that looks real.

But to do it on a budget you have to do it the old Hong Kong cinema way. Get a starving stunt person, have them sign release, film him taking a head shot.

Aric Mannion · January 8th, 2009, 11:05 AM

I've only skimmed the video once, I thought it could be real since it doesn't hurt too bad to get hit with a giant glove. But if this kind of thing is possible with after effects I'd be happy to hear about it.

January 3rd, 2009, 09:19 PM	#1
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	How to knock someone out! Need some advice on the special effect where a guys jaw goes back and forth and he spits blood. How do I achieve this (slo mo) without whacking the heck out of someone? __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

January 4th, 2009, 09:04 AM	#3
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	George that was awesome! I've knocked out 3 actors trying to get that effect. What is a viper and where/how do i get one... Where those shots done in after effects? __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

January 5th, 2009, 08:32 PM	#7
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	They knew the job was dangerous when they took it! :) __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

January 5th, 2009, 08:33 PM	#8
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	So your saying the shots in the video are real!!! No way. I thought they were done in After Effects or something like that. __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

January 4th, 2009, 05:37 AM	#2
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	Didn't look for the original link, but here's how to get the most realistic results. YouTube - Slow Motion Punches Believe this was shot with a Viper if I recall correctly. George/

January 5th, 2009, 06:23 PM	#5
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	Brian, you're right believe it was a Phantom; brain misfire... Anyway, the original video is here: Action Figure \| Content \| Punches (I like to link to originals). You'll need some serious overcranking to pull this off. Hard to fake (believably). There may be threads in the Alternative Imaging forums about high speed recording. Can't really help you much. George/

January 6th, 2009, 01:57 PM	#9
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	If you are kicking people in the face you can just use a fake leg. But if you are punching them it may have to be the old fashioned way, which is not fun. Remember to use a lot of powder (like baby powder) but LIGHTLY dusted in the hair, which will accentuate the blow -or water depending on the situation. What I wanted to add though is that Raging Bull has probably the best close up boxing punches on film, where blood even squirts out of his head -I wish I knew how they did that. And my other recommendation is the end fight scene from "Wheels on Meals" where Jackie Chan punches Benny the Jet in the face (by mistake) and Yuen Biao knocks a guy out for real with a vase (...on purpose).

January 7th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#10
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	As a martial arts instructor who also choreographs demonstrations and fight scenes I have to say there is no way to have a believable hit without at least some amount of contact. Slow motion punches are the hardest and most painful (for the actors) but if the person taking the punch and the person executing the blow are trained correctly it can be done safely. If you are knocking out your actors they are not doing it correctly. Best advice would be to get a good stunt coordinator and hire some good stunt people. Aric, have you seen Benny the Jet lately? I ran into him a couple of years ago in Las Vegas (my martial arts instructor worked out with Benny at his Jet Center in LA for a while). Benny is a great guy and is really nice but his face definitely looks like it has been hit a few too many times. Nice to see someone who has an appreciation for the old Golden Harvest movies.

January 8th, 2009, 01:30 AM	#12
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	G. Sorry I should have been more explicit. I think the video is fake. I any case I don't think it looks like any hit I've seen. If you look at the head when they get hit the head distorts way too much. You might be able to get a pretty good look if you have a head made that simulates the what happens to the scull when hit. If you have tons of money to spend I'm sure that ILM or Pixar could do up some CGI stuff that looks real. But to do it on a budget you have to do it the old Hong Kong cinema way. Get a starving stunt person, have them sign release, film him taking a head shot.

January 8th, 2009, 11:05 AM	#13
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	I've only skimmed the video once, I thought it could be real since it doesn't hurt too bad to get hit with a giant glove. But if this kind of thing is possible with after effects I'd be happy to hear about it.