Need help..

Andreas Fernbrant · August 31st, 2003, 06:09 AM

Well, I try to run my own business so I have to get paid. I just decided that this work could be worth more then money or gain me more money later on. Like an investment.

We did not write any contract. And even if we did, I wouln't bring it to the table. They are struggeling as I am. To bring negative things like that to the table don't help me (as I get lawyer fees) and it don't help them. We are disagreeing but the best we can do is to solve our problem together. They are willing to do this.

And before their agent put a halt on the video they actually got it to be shown to a Virgin Records representative (and they liked it very much) and to some very famous people in Sweden.

I wanted it to go to tv and perhaps it still can if I get it to look more like "film"

"Right now you don't need the pressure with money if you are still gaining expirence."

Aren't we all trying to gain expreiance all the time? Even if we are established and work with the tings we do? I always want to get better. (But I understand what you mean)

Thanks for the support though! It means much to me.

Nick Hiltgen · September 3rd, 2003, 12:52 AM

For what it's worth, I think i can understand why the agent would not want them seen... by anyone. Also for some reason i really thought that mentos was about to pop up but that's neither here nor there.. I think that (from the web version) it was shot superbly. very quality and toungue in cheek. I also got the feeling that this was a religious band and I imagine that would be a different kind of appeal then what's normal. To make it look less like video adjust your curves (see the article on it earlier) and deinterlace also and I hate saying this but toss in more cuts. Music video's on average unless they are really so don't linger on an image for much more then 3 seconds most ofg the time it's a 1/4 of that. try those changes if that doesn't work keep the attitude you have right now if anythign you've got a great little clip (though not music) for your reel.

Andreas Fernbrant · September 3rd, 2003, 06:20 AM

Ney Nick,

Thanks for the comments, but I really don't understand what you are trying to say. I understand bit's and pices. But in general?

You liked it but you didn't?

Well, I felt that the only way to make justice of the video is to have those menthos near by:) That's what the band wanted (they did not ask for the menthos feeling but you know what I mean)

"Loads of fun, strong colors...."

I agree on the part that is needs more clips. But I can't.. First off I don't have more clips. (even though I shot 4 hours of tape) most of it is people do strange things in front of the camera. It was their first music video and I had to help them a lot on how to stand, how to behave. Only one of them had good camera apperance (the guy with the brown hair)

Exampels of strange things: Licking their mouth, correcting their boobs or other sensitive parts. Hair blowing infront of their face. People cracking up and starts to laugh while shooting. Even if it's just one person and very subtile I can't use it. They are very aware about their looks. If they don't look perfect, I has to go!

But I sure learnt a lot from doing this!
And I look forward to my next video!

If you like Nick, could you repost and explain in another way what you mean with your post?

/Andreas

Andreas Fernbrant · September 7th, 2003, 11:15 AM

So I've talked to the band now, They wanted a new video.

I agreed to make a new one for them... For FREE!
Either I'm out of my mind or I really want them to be pleased with what I do. So back to the drawing board!

I'll keep you guys posted here in this thread.

I hope you like this new video even better!

Dylan Couper · September 7th, 2003, 12:13 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Andreas Fernbrant : So I've talked to the band now, They wanted a new video.

I agreed to make a new one for them... For FREE!
-->>>

Sounds to me like you are getting taken advantage of.
I believe you delievered a great video (that I would probably charge in the $10,000 range to do) and they don't want it because they want more. If this is the case, tell them to pay you or find someone else to sucker.
I'd walk to a lawyer at this point and see if they could be sued for not completing the end of their bargain, displaying the video you made for free, which you agreed to do so you'd get some publicity.

Given the situation, I would NEVER, EEEEEVER work for them again. This is not how to run a business. You obviously have more talent than they do. Move on. If you are going to work for free, find a client that will contribute something back to you.

Andreas Fernbrant · September 8th, 2003, 01:52 PM

Hey all!

So I've started working on the new video.
The overall issue with the previous video was light.
So I've rerecorded some material in a studio with decent light.
But what do I do with a pure white video? These are my
suggestions. Please comment.

The video is just some takes and you shouldn't care too much about what the person is doing. Just the overall impression.

http://www.atamashi.com/glorious/test2.wmv
http://www.atamashi.com/glorious/test1.wmv

John Hudson · September 8th, 2003, 03:19 PM

I am new to the DV world; but that video looked great. I'm feeling your pain in them wanting a 35mm look. I also agree with everyones take on the music. I almost couldn't stand listening to it. I almost considered just muting and watching images. I had to run to my CD player and put in SYSTEM OF A DOWN. Jeez.

Anyway, serious, it looked nice. A lil post tricks and you'll be stoked.

Jacko Bultinck · September 8th, 2003, 03:57 PM

very well shot andy, nice music vid !!!!!

script fits the song

The scenes: white outfits on white clouds,.......less good idea, my opinion of course,
and scene sequence changes could have been more onto the beat... I think

How did you sync the sound from the studiorecording whilst filming, and what device did you use .....??

congrats dude, love it

jacko

Andreas Fernbrant · September 8th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Jacko; How did you sync the sound from the studiorecording whilst filming, and what device did you use .....??

I used a ordinary taperecorder. Played the song out loud.
In post I just aligned the song and the sound from tape togheter.
If the sound was to low to hear I'd just look at their lips and sync like that.

If you refer to the slowmotion singing. I made a CD with the song played at 200% (extreme slowmotion) and one version with the song played at 175% (less slowmotion) In post I just took the speed down to 50% and it would sync in Slowmotion to the song or 75% for less slowmotion. Worked like a charm. But the results didn't really show in the video. But one of the extreme slowmotion scenes are when the brown guy sings solo for the first time and puts his hand towards the camera.

Hope this was the answeryou where looking for?

Nick Hiltgen · September 8th, 2003, 11:44 PM

Andreas sorry about the ealry post, sometimes I drink a couple of beers and then post on-line and while everything I say is genius ::ahem:: sarcasm ::ahem:: it's often not so easily understandable. So i'll try and clarify some what.

the curves I was referring to was in the article posted somewhere on here the website was this

http://www.geocities.com/pixelmagic2002/CineAlta2.html

by saying the agent wouldn't want them to be seen I was referring to the bands rather less then appealing look on video (or film... to put it nicely they are just umm.. what's the nice word for ugly?)

I just really felt like it was mentos commercial (a really well shot one, but a mentos commercial none the less.)

The cuts could just be quicker add some less then professional looks in there, to be honest they're kind of acting less then professional anyhow. As a horribly base rule if you're holding on a shot for more then 5 seconds in a music video that's at least 2 seconds two long. If you have 4 hours of footage I'm confident that you're creative enough (from seeing what you've done this far) to come up with some solution.

Either was you should keep a copy of the first video (the second didn't load so well for me, but what i saw I didn't enjoy as much) as a good clip for your demo reel.

Jacko Bultinck · September 9th, 2003, 01:58 PM

Andreas, that was exactly what I wanted to know...

thx
and keep on going, you're doing just fine

cheers
Jacko

Jacko Bultinck · September 9th, 2003, 02:10 PM

Nick,

you are just right, but the song isn't all that clubby nor a dance track neither, so cutting fast, wouldn't do much more to a weak kinda middle of the road song.
In fact Andreas made a good vid , with those amateurs, and free of cost.
I've seen lesser good ones from pro's, certainly no free goodies. LOL

Nick Hiltgen · September 9th, 2003, 10:59 PM

definitely andreas did a good job (far better then I would've done-for free or being paid) but I was just trying to answer his question as to why the agent wouldn't want the thing played. Even being a middle of the road kind of song (and that's stretching it) I think that it would benefit from some more cutting, but hey I didn't make it.

September 7th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#20
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Andreas Fernbrant : So I've talked to the band now, They wanted a new video. I agreed to make a new one for them... For FREE! -->>> Sounds to me like you are getting taken advantage of. I believe you delievered a great video (that I would probably charge in the $10,000 range to do) and they don't want it because they want more. If this is the case, tell them to pay you or find someone else to sucker. I'd walk to a lawyer at this point and see if they could be sued for not completing the end of their bargain, displaying the video you made for free, which you agreed to do so you'd get some publicity. Given the situation, I would NEVER, EEEEEVER work for them again. This is not how to run a business. You obviously have more talent than they do. Move on. If you are going to work for free, find a client that will contribute something back to you. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

September 8th, 2003, 03:57 PM	#23
Jacko Bultinck Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: belgium Posts: 30	very well shot andy, nice music vid !!!!! script fits the song The scenes: white outfits on white clouds,.......less good idea, my opinion of course, and scene sequence changes could have been more onto the beat... I think How did you sync the sound from the studiorecording whilst filming, and what device did you use .....?? congrats dude, love it jacko __________________ http://www.waxworld.be

September 9th, 2003, 01:58 PM	#26
Jacko Bultinck Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: belgium Posts: 30	Andreas, that was exactly what I wanted to know... thx and keep on going, you're doing just fine cheers Jacko __________________ http://www.waxworld.be

September 9th, 2003, 02:10 PM	#27
Jacko Bultinck Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: belgium Posts: 30	Nick, you are just right, but the song isn't all that clubby nor a dance track neither, so cutting fast, wouldn't do much more to a weak kinda middle of the road song. In fact Andreas made a good vid , with those amateurs, and free of cost. I've seen lesser good ones from pro's, certainly no free goodies. LOL __________________ http://www.waxworld.be

August 31st, 2003, 06:09 AM	#16
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Well, I try to run my own business so I have to get paid. I just decided that this work could be worth more then money or gain me more money later on. Like an investment. We did not write any contract. And even if we did, I wouln't bring it to the table. They are struggeling as I am. To bring negative things like that to the table don't help me (as I get lawyer fees) and it don't help them. We are disagreeing but the best we can do is to solve our problem together. They are willing to do this. And before their agent put a halt on the video they actually got it to be shown to a Virgin Records representative (and they liked it very much) and to some very famous people in Sweden. I wanted it to go to tv and perhaps it still can if I get it to look more like "film" "Right now you don't need the pressure with money if you are still gaining expirence." Aren't we all trying to gain expreiance all the time? Even if we are established and work with the tings we do? I always want to get better. (But I understand what you mean) Thanks for the support though! It means much to me.

September 3rd, 2003, 12:52 AM	#17
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	For what it's worth, I think i can understand why the agent would not want them seen... by anyone. Also for some reason i really thought that mentos was about to pop up but that's neither here nor there.. I think that (from the web version) it was shot superbly. very quality and toungue in cheek. I also got the feeling that this was a religious band and I imagine that would be a different kind of appeal then what's normal. To make it look less like video adjust your curves (see the article on it earlier) and deinterlace also and I hate saying this but toss in more cuts. Music video's on average unless they are really so don't linger on an image for much more then 3 seconds most ofg the time it's a 1/4 of that. try those changes if that doesn't work keep the attitude you have right now if anythign you've got a great little clip (though not music) for your reel.

September 3rd, 2003, 06:20 AM	#18
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Ney Nick, Thanks for the comments, but I really don't understand what you are trying to say. I understand bit's and pices. But in general? You liked it but you didn't? Well, I felt that the only way to make justice of the video is to have those menthos near by:) That's what the band wanted (they did not ask for the menthos feeling but you know what I mean) "Loads of fun, strong colors...." I agree on the part that is needs more clips. But I can't.. First off I don't have more clips. (even though I shot 4 hours of tape) most of it is people do strange things in front of the camera. It was their first music video and I had to help them a lot on how to stand, how to behave. Only one of them had good camera apperance (the guy with the brown hair) Exampels of strange things: Licking their mouth, correcting their boobs or other sensitive parts. Hair blowing infront of their face. People cracking up and starts to laugh while shooting. Even if it's just one person and very subtile I can't use it. They are very aware about their looks. If they don't look perfect, I has to go! But I sure learnt a lot from doing this! And I look forward to my next video! If you like Nick, could you repost and explain in another way what you mean with your post? /Andreas

September 7th, 2003, 11:15 AM	#19
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	So I've talked to the band now, They wanted a new video. I agreed to make a new one for them... For FREE! Either I'm out of my mind or I really want them to be pleased with what I do. So back to the drawing board! I'll keep you guys posted here in this thread. I hope you like this new video even better!

September 8th, 2003, 01:52 PM	#21
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Hey all! So I've started working on the new video. The overall issue with the previous video was light. So I've rerecorded some material in a studio with decent light. But what do I do with a pure white video? These are my suggestions. Please comment. The video is just some takes and you shouldn't care too much about what the person is doing. Just the overall impression. http://www.atamashi.com/glorious/test2.wmv http://www.atamashi.com/glorious/test1.wmv

September 8th, 2003, 03:19 PM	#22
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	I am new to the DV world; but that video looked great. I'm feeling your pain in them wanting a 35mm look. I also agree with everyones take on the music. I almost couldn't stand listening to it. I almost considered just muting and watching images. I had to run to my CD player and put in SYSTEM OF A DOWN. Jeez. Anyway, serious, it looked nice. A lil post tricks and you'll be stoked.

September 8th, 2003, 05:55 PM	#24
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Jacko; How did you sync the sound from the studiorecording whilst filming, and what device did you use .....?? I used a ordinary taperecorder. Played the song out loud. In post I just aligned the song and the sound from tape togheter. If the sound was to low to hear I'd just look at their lips and sync like that. If you refer to the slowmotion singing. I made a CD with the song played at 200% (extreme slowmotion) and one version with the song played at 175% (less slowmotion) In post I just took the speed down to 50% and it would sync in Slowmotion to the song or 75% for less slowmotion. Worked like a charm. But the results didn't really show in the video. But one of the extreme slowmotion scenes are when the brown guy sings solo for the first time and puts his hand towards the camera. Hope this was the answeryou where looking for?

September 8th, 2003, 11:44 PM	#25
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Andreas sorry about the ealry post, sometimes I drink a couple of beers and then post on-line and while everything I say is genius ::ahem:: sarcasm ::ahem:: it's often not so easily understandable. So i'll try and clarify some what. the curves I was referring to was in the article posted somewhere on here the website was this http://www.geocities.com/pixelmagic2002/CineAlta2.html by saying the agent wouldn't want them to be seen I was referring to the bands rather less then appealing look on video (or film... to put it nicely they are just umm.. what's the nice word for ugly?) I just really felt like it was mentos commercial (a really well shot one, but a mentos commercial none the less.) The cuts could just be quicker add some less then professional looks in there, to be honest they're kind of acting less then professional anyhow. As a horribly base rule if you're holding on a shot for more then 5 seconds in a music video that's at least 2 seconds two long. If you have 4 hours of footage I'm confident that you're creative enough (from seeing what you've done this far) to come up with some solution. Either was you should keep a copy of the first video (the second didn't load so well for me, but what i saw I didn't enjoy as much) as a good clip for your demo reel.

September 9th, 2003, 10:59 PM	#28
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	definitely andreas did a good job (far better then I would've done-for free or being paid) but I was just trying to answer his question as to why the agent wouldn't want the thing played. Even being a middle of the road kind of song (and that's stretching it) I think that it would benefit from some more cutting, but hey I didn't make it.