Matte Box? at DVinfo.net

Corey Sturmer · August 2nd, 2003, 04:54 PM

I'm going to have to start this post off with an apology for my ignorance, but being a child of the DV age, I never actually got a chance to work with film which is kind of a shame, because I really don't know what a matte box is. I've used gel sheets before when lighting, and as I can gather, it seems to be about the same thing. A box that goes in front of the lense that you place filters in to alter the look. But what is involved when buying a matte box for your DV camera? I have a GL2 and want to buy a matte box to put on there. I don't know what a good price is, what a bad price is, what sizes I should use? Can I use it with a wide angle adapter, or do I have to get a larger matte box for that? Man, just so confused! Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance.

Dylan Couper · August 2nd, 2003, 06:06 PM

Well, there are two types of ways a matte box attaches to your camera, it clamps on to the lens, or it is mounted to the bottom via a set of rails. A clamp on might not work with a wide angle adapter, the rail type are more versitile, but more expensive.

You can get a hard style, which is just like a big lens hood, or a bellows style which accordion in or out to block more external light.
Yes, they are basically filter holders with lens hoods. However, they hold several filters at a time. The common DV sizes are 3"x3" or 4"x4". Bigger is more expensive, and for your camera 3x3 is fine. The other good thing about them is they let you rotate and move up/down the filters, which is important with grad type filters.

Prices start at $300 I think for the Lee style one and go up to the $2000 range. In my humble opinion Cavision ( www.cavision.com ) matte box is the best bang for the buck at around $600 for a 4x4 box set up on a rail system.

Corey Sturmer · August 2nd, 2003, 06:49 PM

Thanks very much, I appreciate it.

Federico Dib · August 2nd, 2003, 08:33 PM

Hi, I don't know much about matte boxes.. but I do have a Canon Xm2 (Gl2) and I´ve used some Cokin Filter Holders... and I can tell you this:

With the "A" series (their small ones) you are very likely to get vigneting or focusing problems when using the widest angle of the camera.

The "P" series (the bigger ones) are most suitable for the GL-2.. I tell you because I was misadviced once on this matter... I was told the "P" series was too big for my cam... and it wasn´t..

So as I tell you I am an ignorant about matte boxes.. but with the Gl-2 and it´s very wide lens..IF I were you.. I will double check the correct size of the matte Box and filters.. before spending the money on it..

You don´t want to have a part of the hood showing on you wide shots...

If in doubt go for the bigger one...

but then.. What do I know?

Tom Christensen · August 5th, 2003, 08:58 AM

What is the advantage of using a matte/filter box for filter/color effects over applying a filter digitally in post. I have looked at matte boxes but can never get over the increased control I have over the output in my editig program. Are there any advantages in using real filters over digital ones?

T

Federico Dib · August 5th, 2003, 10:38 AM

I mainly use ND´s, softening, and polarizing filters and here is why I don´t do it in post...

1.- Rendering time. Yeah I´ve allways hated it.. I don´t have a powerfull PC..

2.- The ND´s allow me to play with exposure and fstop and DOF.. more than what the Camera by itself allows me to.. (and my Cam XM2 has a ND filter built in.. just not enough for me)... I can´t make DOF effects in post.. and bringing out detail of overxposed image is impossible on post..

3.- The optical effect that I get from the Softening filters, I´ve never been able to reproduce it in post... A softening filter in front of the lens affects the light that enters the cam.. Using blur or Softening effects in post afects the allready recorded image... I guess this point is just a mix between hating render time and being sure that I want the softening effect when I use it...

4.- Some other efects.. like ´killing reflection with a polarizer, can´t be done in post...

5.- Hate rendering time...

Of course this is jut personal taste.. and I don´t use filters unless I´m completely sure I want that effect... mostly in Short Fiction or experimental...

Casey Visco · August 5th, 2003, 12:59 PM

and don't forget, the more you screw with an image in post...the more likely you are to lose image quality...if you can achieve the look in camera...you'll have a cleaner image AND no rendering time! =)

August 2nd, 2003, 04:54 PM	#1
Corey Sturmer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 144	Matte Box? I'm going to have to start this post off with an apology for my ignorance, but being a child of the DV age, I never actually got a chance to work with film which is kind of a shame, because I really don't know what a matte box is. I've used gel sheets before when lighting, and as I can gather, it seems to be about the same thing. A box that goes in front of the lense that you place filters in to alter the look. But what is involved when buying a matte box for your DV camera? I have a GL2 and want to buy a matte box to put on there. I don't know what a good price is, what a bad price is, what sizes I should use? Can I use it with a wide angle adapter, or do I have to get a larger matte box for that? Man, just so confused! Can anyone help? Thanks in advance. __________________ Corey Sturmer Producer - Woffester Productions

August 2nd, 2003, 06:06 PM	#2
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Well, there are two types of ways a matte box attaches to your camera, it clamps on to the lens, or it is mounted to the bottom via a set of rails. A clamp on might not work with a wide angle adapter, the rail type are more versitile, but more expensive. You can get a hard style, which is just like a big lens hood, or a bellows style which accordion in or out to block more external light. Yes, they are basically filter holders with lens hoods. However, they hold several filters at a time. The common DV sizes are 3"x3" or 4"x4". Bigger is more expensive, and for your camera 3x3 is fine. The other good thing about them is they let you rotate and move up/down the filters, which is important with grad type filters. Prices start at $300 I think for the Lee style one and go up to the $2000 range. In my humble opinion Cavision ( www.cavision.com ) matte box is the best bang for the buck at around $600 for a 4x4 box set up on a rail system. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 2nd, 2003, 06:49 PM	#3
Corey Sturmer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 144	Thanks very much, I appreciate it. __________________ Corey Sturmer Producer - Woffester Productions

August 5th, 2003, 10:38 AM	#6
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	I mainly use ND´s, softening, and polarizing filters and here is why I don´t do it in post... 1.- Rendering time. Yeah I´ve allways hated it.. I don´t have a powerfull PC.. 2.- The ND´s allow me to play with exposure and fstop and DOF.. more than what the Camera by itself allows me to.. (and my Cam XM2 has a ND filter built in.. just not enough for me)... I can´t make DOF effects in post.. and bringing out detail of overxposed image is impossible on post.. 3.- The optical effect that I get from the Softening filters, I´ve never been able to reproduce it in post... A softening filter in front of the lens affects the light that enters the cam.. Using blur or Softening effects in post afects the allready recorded image... I guess this point is just a mix between hating render time and being sure that I want the softening effect when I use it... 4.- Some other efects.. like ´killing reflection with a polarizer, can´t be done in post... 5.- Hate rendering time... Of course this is jut personal taste.. and I don´t use filters unless I´m completely sure I want that effect... mostly in Short Fiction or experimental... __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

August 5th, 2003, 12:59 PM	#7
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	and don't forget, the more you screw with an image in post...the more likely you are to lose image quality...if you can achieve the look in camera...you'll have a cleaner image AND no rendering time! =) __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

August 2nd, 2003, 08:33 PM	#4
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Hi, I don't know much about matte boxes.. but I do have a Canon Xm2 (Gl2) and I´ve used some Cokin Filter Holders... and I can tell you this: With the "A" series (their small ones) you are very likely to get vigneting or focusing problems when using the widest angle of the camera. The "P" series (the bigger ones) are most suitable for the GL-2.. I tell you because I was misadviced once on this matter... I was told the "P" series was too big for my cam... and it wasn´t.. So as I tell you I am an ignorant about matte boxes.. but with the Gl-2 and it´s very wide lens..IF I were you.. I will double check the correct size of the matte Box and filters.. before spending the money on it.. You don´t want to have a part of the hood showing on you wide shots... If in doubt go for the bigger one... but then.. What do I know?

August 5th, 2003, 08:58 AM	#5
Tom Christensen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cave Creek, AZ Posts: 87	What is the advantage of using a matte/filter box for filter/color effects over applying a filter digitally in post. I have looked at matte boxes but can never get over the increased control I have over the output in my editig program. Are there any advantages in using real filters over digital ones? T