Advice to Student Filmmakers -- Do Not Follow The Rules!

Keith Loh · April 27th, 2005, 11:01 AM

That was brilliant, Dylan. But you must be an old bitter fogie who is just takin' it out on those rebels who would be the next Tarantinos if only they could get past your class.

Quote:

Godard almost said it best: "all you need for a film is a girl and a gun", but although the first half of his name IS "God" he was wrong on this, as he should have said "All you need for a film is a girl OR a gun". However if choosing the "girl" route, do make sure that she is beaten/raped/murdered by the end of the film.

This is my favourite and also the most depressing. When you have a forty-year old director yelling for "more titties" you wonder just why you are on set if not satisfying some immature fantasy.

Pete Wilie · April 27th, 2005, 11:03 AM

Dylan,

I think you've got the perfect script for a documentary on student filmmaking.

But don't be surprised when you find someone quoting you on proper filmmaking. <bg> You obviously have too much time on your hands. <g>

Heath McKnight · April 27th, 2005, 11:11 AM

I had one student who never focused and, though we allow people final cut, when everyone, students, teachers and regular people, told the student to cut the film from 30 minutes to at least 20, the student scoffed.

heath

Steve Law · April 27th, 2005, 11:40 PM

ive never followed a formula to makeing short films. i usually just go with whatever looks good to me.

Dylan Pank · April 28th, 2005, 02:44 AM

I aint bitter, more annoyed, and too frequently disappointed. I'm 33 so not a fogey yet and I do have very good students too. I'd be proud for my class to produce the next Tarantino - hell, I'd be happy with the the next Raja Gosnell!

I'm happy for students to "break the rules", I'm just annoyed when they don't care about what they film. especially those that have CHOSEN to do video production.

The "woman being attacked" one is pretty depressing, as every time a group suggests this storyline, they start by saying "We've decided to do something a bit different" and then outline the same cliches: girl wandering home alone, the attacker's POV, girl runs away, finds somewhere safe, and just when she thinks she's got away the attacker catches her. Why can't my students aspire to break THAT narrative convention!

"Breaking rules" is great if you want to create something daring and innovative, but not when it's out of out of laziness and lack of imagination.

The main problem I have with the title for this thread is it's a negative statement mascarading as a positive one, and it's essentially meaningless and empty.

How about if the title was "Advice to Student Filmmakers -- Do something different: creative, original and unexpected".

Nevin, I see your problem and it may be a valid one, but frankly if that's the way you're assessed then you have poor teachers. I do NOT assess lighting (for example) on personal taste. I dislike that high gloss, Advertising/Michael-Bay-film cinematography, but if a student managed to replicate that style for a project, he or she would get very good marks because it demonstrates particular skill, but also taken into account is the amount of planning or preparation a student does. You get marks for lots of research, (ploughing through copies of American Cinematographer, or the many good books on film/video lighting), preparation, doing tests, working out an appropriate look for the film, finding photos and paintings as references, etc.

In the end it's irrelevent because if the students do really good work, they'll have great showreels and practical experience, and they'll realise the good/bad grades they got aren't so important, and they'll find people in the professional world are so much more subjective and judgemental than their teachers ever were.

Nevin Aragam · April 28th, 2005, 07:14 AM

Well, that made my day. I just had a chance to read your synopsis of the student film making handbook, Dylan, and well I almost crapped my self. That was great.

I enjoy the fact that you single handedly pointed out most, if not everything, that pisses me off about people.

Though, after reading that, it got me thinking more carefully about this topic.
When push comes to shove, what are great movies? (films, documentaries, whatever you want to call them...)

You've got your titanics and other cult classics, blah blah blah, but i'd like to know what most of you all concider great movies "great movies," and why?

I'm sure it will offer a great introspective view of this topic it self, and how things are so subjective.

So, what's your favorite movie and why?

Thanks,

Nevin

p.s. if this is the wrong forum for this... oops

Keith Loh · April 28th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Nevin, that's probably worth a different thread.

Rob Lohman · April 30th, 2005, 04:16 AM

There already is a favorite movie thread on this board:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=35751

And a thread about inspiration:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=16013

And a favorite trailers thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=39119

Please contribute to those instead of in this thread or starting a new one. Thanks!

Heath McKnight · April 30th, 2005, 10:04 AM

Thanks, Rob (and your 10,000 posts).

heath

April 27th, 2005, 11:11 AM	#48
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I had one student who never focused and, though we allow people final cut, when everyone, students, teachers and regular people, told the student to cut the film from 30 minutes to at least 20, the student scoffed. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 28th, 2005, 07:14 AM	#51
Nevin Aragam Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Posts: 37	Well, that made my day. I just had a chance to read your synopsis of the student film making handbook, Dylan, and well I almost crapped my self. That was great. I enjoy the fact that you single handedly pointed out most, if not everything, that pisses me off about people. Though, after reading that, it got me thinking more carefully about this topic. When push comes to shove, what are great movies? (films, documentaries, whatever you want to call them...) You've got your titanics and other cult classics, blah blah blah, but i'd like to know what most of you all concider great movies "great movies," and why? I'm sure it will offer a great introspective view of this topic it self, and how things are so subjective. So, what's your favorite movie and why? Thanks, Nevin p.s. if this is the wrong forum for this... oops __________________ That'll do pig, that'll do

April 28th, 2005, 08:23 AM	#52
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	Nevin, that's probably worth a different thread. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

April 30th, 2005, 04:16 AM	#53
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	There already is a favorite movie thread on this board: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=35751 And a thread about inspiration: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=16013 And a favorite trailers thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=39119 Please contribute to those instead of in this thread or starting a new one. Thanks! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 30th, 2005, 10:04 AM	#54
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks, Rob (and your 10,000 posts). heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 27th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#47
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	Dylan, I think you've got the perfect script for a documentary on student filmmaking. But don't be surprised when you find someone quoting you on proper filmmaking. <bg> You obviously have too much time on your hands. <g>

April 27th, 2005, 11:40 PM	#49
Steve Law Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 29	ive never followed a formula to makeing short films. i usually just go with whatever looks good to me.

April 28th, 2005, 02:44 AM	#50
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	I aint bitter, more annoyed, and too frequently disappointed. I'm 33 so not a fogey yet and I do have very good students too. I'd be proud for my class to produce the next Tarantino - hell, I'd be happy with the the next Raja Gosnell! I'm happy for students to "break the rules", I'm just annoyed when they don't care about what they film. especially those that have CHOSEN to do video production. The "woman being attacked" one is pretty depressing, as every time a group suggests this storyline, they start by saying "We've decided to do something a bit different" and then outline the same cliches: girl wandering home alone, the attacker's POV, girl runs away, finds somewhere safe, and just when she thinks she's got away the attacker catches her. Why can't my students aspire to break THAT narrative convention! "Breaking rules" is great if you want to create something daring and innovative, but not when it's out of out of laziness and lack of imagination. The main problem I have with the title for this thread is it's a negative statement mascarading as a positive one, and it's essentially meaningless and empty. How about if the title was "Advice to Student Filmmakers -- Do something different: creative, original and unexpected". Nevin, I see your problem and it may be a valid one, but frankly if that's the way you're assessed then you have poor teachers. I do NOT assess lighting (for example) on personal taste. I dislike that high gloss, Advertising/Michael-Bay-film cinematography, but if a student managed to replicate that style for a project, he or she would get very good marks because it demonstrates particular skill, but also taken into account is the amount of planning or preparation a student does. You get marks for lots of research, (ploughing through copies of American Cinematographer, or the many good books on film/video lighting), preparation, doing tests, working out an appropriate look for the film, finding photos and paintings as references, etc. In the end it's irrelevent because if the students do really good work, they'll have great showreels and practical experience, and they'll realise the good/bad grades they got aren't so important, and they'll find people in the professional world are so much more subjective and judgemental than their teachers ever were.