Ridiculous Job Offers / Demands!!

[Chris Leong]

Chris,

I agree in principle with your statements and I'd also like to point out that this thread is probably the first, of this kind of breath and depth, on the web.

I work within the industry in Hollywood, and most of my reality clients use craigslist to advertise, yes, even the "big budget" network ones.

They've been using this tactic for years now to get zero cost acting -- oops, sorry -- reality talent, PAs et al, so I guess it was only a matter of time before the "remedy" spread to all areas.

So I've actually pointed some of them to this thread as a caveat that their budget slashing brilliance may make them a laughing stock in the industry, or, at the very least, that we the crew are on to them.

In that light, I think this thread, and its continuance, may serve as something of a preventative cure for the craigslist portion of the disease, anyway.

And, like any wellness cure, it's difficult to see its efficacy in terms of potential disasters avoided, of idiot jobs not applied for, of basic fees held out for.

Now I know that ours is a camera forum and really this may be more of a socio political issue, but saving the union fora, where else would an issue like this find its home? Especially when those people who are being targeted are beginners and people with less experience and likely no union affiliations, who really have only sites like these as their information resources?

JM2c, FWIW.
Thanks for the great work!
Cheers
Chris

[Ben Winter]

Can Craigslist actually remove posts based on their pay grade? It seems like a fairly ambiguous decision for Craigslist to be allowed to make. So what if I offer $20 a day to anyone with an FX1? Is craigslist really going to require me to raise my compensation? Based on what? So I don't hurt their feelings? :)

An all-around "keep your compensation reasonable" reminder on craigslist forms might make a difference, as well as initiating some continuing aura of shame on those who offer less than acceptable pay for the work they require.

[Chris Leong]

Ben
No, you can't flag based on low price, but you can flag if it's miscategorized as a paying job when it isn't.

[Ben Winter]

Originally Posted by Chris Leong

Ben
No, you can't flag based on low price, but you can flag if it's miscategorized as a paying job when it isn't.

Ah, ok, that's what I was wondering.

[James Emory]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

... A little ways back, a comment was directed at Chris Ward (a friend of mine and one of the original members of this site) stating that he "must not have read this entire thread." ...

That was an informative reply that accurately explained an opinion shared by many. Why did you note that he is a friend of yours and what is an original member? I think I'm one of the first 2000 so am I original?

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

... How can *anyone* outside of its core contributors be expected to read all 66 pages of it, when it's just the same thing over and over again? ...

I guess I should have said read through this entire thread. There's about 5 *core* contributors and as of this post 58,000+ views. I don't think 5 people have looked through it that much. I probably wouldn't have the time or patience to read every post in ANY hugemongous thread no matter what the topic was but some may like to. If people are really interested, they will read as much as they can stand.

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

I do see this thread as having run its course. Several times. And then having been beaten to death a few times more and buried. And then exhumed and beaten again just to make a point about it being dead. ...

I wouldn't say it's been buried. I can't remember a time when it was more than ten threads down in this forum. As far as being beaten, we're not making this stuff up. This is reality at it's best. I'm just waiting for the ultimate post for someone to make Craig's List the Movie and totally contradict the CL reputation by actually paying everyone that works on it!

[Nick Hiltgen]

Chris has an excellent point.

That being said, my typical DVinfo experience usually goes something like XL-h1(to offer some help), Private Classified(to try and get something on the cheap), this thread (to get a good laugh and see if anyone copies posts from people I know) I don't think that this thread needs all 65 pages, you could probably erase a good 50 or so and no one would care, but I think it's fun to come here and read the lengths people are going. It's kind of a bottom feeder market watch.

No it doesn't really help the reputation of this site, but it is entertaining. I do understand chris' concern though. This doesn't offer a real useful resource but it's just so darn fun to read. (Unless you know, reading is a resource, in which case there's that...)

[Craig Seeman]

I would bet that as newbies join DVInfo, this thread title catches them and they read a bit . . . and learn . . . because this may be type of people who'd otherwise respond to these craigslist ads.

I do think it warrants and index of the different types of job offers so people can easily find what types of "affronts" there are.

Make my movie for nothing (credit, karma, peanuts . . butter sandwiches).
Working with award winners for nothing.
My film is going to be seen by x (event, decision maker), for nothing.
Promise future paying work.
Risk damage to your equipment.
Outsourcing to you but I'm getting most of the money.
Contribute thousands of dollars worth of gear for nothing.
Pay scales not commensurate with experience, equipment used.
For profit business that pays little or nothing.
Incongruous skill sets (shooting, typing, answering phones, gaffer, etc).
Unreasonable travel.
Ignorant vs exploitive ads, etc.
Probably other variants I'm forgetting at the moment.

Some would need several keywords if they fall into multiple categories.

The above could make this into a useful resource for newbies (both job seekers and would be clients).

As to what WE (I) do to help this situation in our industry. I flag exploitive posts. I respond to ignorant posts with my rates and explain why.

[Craig Seeman]

Just to be existential. Post 1000.

Maybe the thread should morph into something useful and living (with specific examples as we already do) and comments should be constructive rather than simply derogatory/derisive . . . but humor, even negative, can help make a point or why would The Daily Show and Colbert Report be so popular.

[Don Donatello]

what i call a ridiculous job offers /demands ..
last month i was called on a monday at 5pm ... offering me work ( DP commercial) for the next day ... they wanted me to catch a 7:30pm flight that evening ... when i explained i was flying out the next morning to see my grand kids - they then up the $$ to 2X my rate ... i said the grand kids were expecting me, the producer then went on about how kids should experience " let downs , broken promises " in their life " just like all other kids" or they won't be able to relate to their friends !!!
when i said NO thank you , they then offered 4X day rate for the day ...

now - one has to ask what kind of problems are they having on the set if you get a call the night before the shoot ? and they are willing to pay 4X day rate for the day !! ...

i flew to see the grand kids ....

[Nick Hiltgen]

Ha! don, you know that's rediculous 4x your rate that must be some sort of disaster! Sounds like you'd be walking into a war zone or something. you'd be crazy to want to do that...

... so uh next time, uh, let me send you my number and you can pass it along to me ;)

[Dylan Couper]

Just for kicks...

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/tfr/364756132.html

Jack Felson
writer/producer/director...... tightwad.

I smiled when I read "don't hesitate to call me!"

For $70 a day, I'd rather work at Starbucks (which would be about $80 a day at least) where I can drink all the Blue Mountain coffee I want.

[Dylan Couper]

Also fun to read...

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/cwg/352859431.html

I've Never Seen Anyone Capitolize Every Word Before. It's Weird To Read.

I love this:

If You Have No Experience, Who Cares? All You Need Is A Nice Camera

And the best...

If It Is Not Digital, We Will Pay For Film Out Of Pocket

[Kelly Goden]

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/tfr/368236088.html

Film Crew required from Sept.15 to Nov.1.Must be creative and quick.


*Must not be afraid of the dark or bears.*



Where is my cinematographer?I know you are out there.Very rewarding pay.

[Chris Leong]

Was that
"bring lights and come loaded for bear"??
LOL!!!

[Denis Danatzko]

I am looking to hire 2-3 EXPERIENCED VIDEOGRAPHERS to shoot a wedding in xxxxxxxxxxxxx on Saturday July xth.
Pay is $25 an hour.

the hours will likely be from about 3:30 pm - 10 or 11 pm.
so for 6-7 hours of shooting you will earn $150-$190.

I am a videographer in xxxxxxx but am attending this wedding as a guest of the xxxxxxxx. I want to enjoy my time and don't want to shoot the wedding but I will be there to help facilitate shots and setups of the wedding and the reception party.

I am very flexible and easy going and am looking for professional shooters with previous wedding experience.

there will be no editing.
I will supply the tapes and will collect all of the tapes at the end of the night.
...if the video and audio footage is acceptable and satisfactory, you will be payed in full- immediately on the evening of the event.

I prefer shooters who use the PANASONIC DVX100 cameras (any model)
a solid, sturdy, professional tripod is mandatory.

I will pay $35 an hour to anyone with both a DVX100 CAMERA and
PROPER EXTERNAL MICROPHONES(shotgun mic, wireless lavaliers, etc...)

The location is xxxxx
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Granted, there's no editing, but it seems some of our own "cohorts" are looking to take advantage of us. "Have you no sense of decency, man?"

Personally, I avoid shooting weddings, and will generally work for what other might think is too few bucks. I don't have the experience that many others here do. But I recently did a job for a more experienced producer; my equipment, I just did camera work, (no editing by me), and I turned the tapes over when done. He had no problem with my day rate, which I thought was about average, particularly based on my lack of (what I thought was) in-depth experience. But, after the shoot the clients were thrilled. The producer and I met at a restaurant and he told me I was good enough that I should be charging more. (A nice compliment, but easier said than done). If nothing else, it's got me to thinking that I should only accept low-rate jobs as a last resort.

So, yes, I'd vote that this thread IS good for anyone who considers themself a "newbie."