Ridiculous Job Offers / Demands!!

James Emory · December 20th, 2005, 02:11 PM

All I'm saying is that I have alot of experience and have been exposed to all sorts of situations and proposals and still have not seen it all. All of this knowledge came with time, which you WILL eventually learn, grasshopper. I talk to others with much more experience than me to learn about what to look for and have learned alot that way. I will admit that I have fallen for a few of these nice, innocent posts before only to get screwed after trusting them. Some people specialize in deception. Most legitimate employers even internships provide contact information and are very specific about what they want. Most shady people are very vague and don't reveal any specifics so you can't check up on them. Why do you think that is?

James Emory · December 20th, 2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

So you're saying there's no way this poster is from a legit production company, and this internship would do anything at all for the intern?

Now, where did you see that? If you want to take the post literally, other than the request to tell the person why you're so worthy to work with them, it is not really outright ridiculous. But again, with experience I obviously see red flags that you don't see because of my bad experiences in the past.

James Emory · December 20th, 2005, 02:37 PM

I had a situation last spring where someone wanted to produce a children's television pilot. She had a finished script and talked a goooood game. We met and discussed production gear needs to get it done. We scouted the locations and I gave her a proposal. She said that was fine and we would roll in a few days. Well, I never got my deposit check for the gear rentals so I called her because it was just a few days before we rolled. Josh, the whole time she NEVER had the money!! I spent all that time planning, scouting, making a proposal and putting together cameras, jib, grip/electric and lighting packages all FOR NOTHING! But her post was so straight forward and she was so nice. She blamed it on her "investors", what investors? Either you have the money or you don't. She told us beforehand that she already had the money at least for production. These types of people are mentally ill and live in a fantasy world. They want to feel important so bad that they will go through the motions to get that feeling. She damaged her reputation more than she knows. Ironically, that was a valuable learning experience for me to be able to recognize the warning signs of bad projects in the future and it has paid off.

Bad projects don't stop with me, the UPM in some cases. It makes me look bad with the rental houses and the crew. If you constantly reserve gear and then cancel because of these risky projects, you could lose deposits and/or your credibility for making business decisions about projects. Also, in some cases if you reserve a crew and you cancel, depending on terms, you could be charged cacellation fees and in some cases full day rates to cover their lost work days. You need to experience some of this first hand and then come back and tell me to take it easy on these folks.

Craig Seeman · December 20th, 2005, 04:02 PM

With 25 years under my belt in this industry, going from messanger to senior editor and video engineer at some big post facilities as well as boutiques and getting my own small business off the ground . . . I agree with James completely.

I know how PROFESSIONAL facilities handle this and see the lies wannabes make. I see the same red flags James saw.

Internships usually means being MENTORED by someone with more experience NOT taking a lead roll (at least not until you're trained). College Credit means the SCHOOL will approve the credit. You can't simply offer it. The facility or person offering the internship should have a track record including their work and promotion from within to paying positions.

Josh Bass · December 20th, 2005, 05:42 PM

See, nobody said that.

Your one comment on the ad was something about "another person asking you to prove why you should have the privilege of working for free", so I thought that was your gripe.

Now, if you'd simply said, "look at this obvious loser who's acting like his internship would be worth anything when he's clearly not a legit production company and has no idea what he's talking about, as he's not provided a company name nor any contact info", that would be different.

But I'll continue to police the thread, and judge ridiculousness as I see fit. Until then, my work is done

*flies away*

Dylan Couper · December 20th, 2005, 08:43 PM

James Emory!
You are hereby charged with a double, triple and QUADRUPLE post all in the last two pages of this thread. I hereby dock you a combined total of NINE gold stars from the class list, and give you this pointy cap to wear for the rest of the semester.

Anyway, I tried figuring out what you two (Jams and Josh) were discussing, but then I got bored, so uh.... lets get back on topic. :)

Chris Hurd · December 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM

Whether it's a paid position or an internship, either way it's an exchange of value or at least is supposed to be an exchange of value. I don't see any difference. Ten years ago we had a college intern at my production studio in San Marcos and it worked out great. It was listed as unpaid but we paid the guy whenever possible, "blue sky" money, even if it was just $50 or $100 here and there, for a 12-hours-per-week kind of deal. I cringe when I read those "tell me why you should intern for me for free" ads.

Josh Bass · December 21st, 2005, 01:26 PM

I know, I know.

Cringe away, but, as an example, VT2, a well-known Houston production company, offered an internship, and I believe they also asked that you tell them why you were worthy.

George Ellis · December 21st, 2005, 05:17 PM

Sorry, my non-video related company ALWAYS pays interns. AND there are very strict requirements from the university on how we create intership positions so that they do count for credit. That post is ridiculous without references.

Nick Hiltgen · December 25th, 2005, 11:58 PM

Well, it finally happened, Being from Atlanta and having many cheap friends, combined with James' love for this thread I knew it would happen sooner or later. But I believe I know the poster of the "emmy winner" thread, I wonder if it was a regional emmy.

OH and did anyone catch this one? Um All he needs is your address, name and SS#!!!!! That's just so wrong. I wonder if the rest of the money will be raised via credit card....

Reply to: XXX@XXX.com
Date: 2005-12-19, 4:57PM EST

Hi, my name is Petie. I am an NYU student from Atlanta and I am working on a music video/short film project for this summer. I am trying to assemble a crew at the moment. I would like to employ all student film makers if possible. i thought it would be cool if we were all students working on the project, you know, help each other out.
I am looking for grips, electricians, ac's, the works. So please send me an email with your name, address so I can mail you further information, ss# for legal and organization purposes and then a casual resume of work and film experience. Also include the position(s) you would like, duh.
I currently have a little less than $5000 put away for this, so it will be paid. I am hoping to raise more by the summer, but we'll see.
I am also talking with Mos Def's representation about having him play the lead. But that's not at all a done deal-everybody needs a dream though, right?
Well thanks to anybody who follows up on this. Please ask any questions or voice any concerns. Thanks
-Petie
this is in or around Atlanta-all over
no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: unknown-but there will be pay

Jipsi Kinnear · December 26th, 2005, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

Hi, my name is Petie. I am an NYU student from Atlanta and I am working on a music video/short film project for this summer. I am trying to assemble a crew at the moment. I would like to employ all student film makers if possible. i thought it would be cool if we were all students working on the project, you know, help each other out.
I am looking for grips, electricians, ac's, the works. So please send me an email with your name, address so I can mail you further information, ss# for legal and organization purposes and then a casual resume of work and film experience. Also include the position(s) you would like, duh.
I currently have a little less than $5000 put away for this, so it will be paid. I am hoping to raise more by the summer, but we'll see.
I am also talking with Mos Def's representation about having him play the lead. But that's not at all a done deal-everybody needs a dream though, right?
Well thanks to anybody who follows up on this. Please ask any questions or voice any concerns. Thanks
-Petie
this is in or around Atlanta-all over
no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: unknown-but there will be pay

Hmmm, I had a dog named Petie (Petey) that ran away. He was a complete terror with a mind of his own, not sure he could make it all the way to Atlanta though.

Josh Bass · December 26th, 2005, 01:11 AM

Ok, I know this isn't all that ridiculous, but look:

"Hello I am 28 year old who just moved from south cali to NYC and now I am looking to start finding my posse of filmmaking buddies. I have made various short films as well as a feature film. However I am now interested in shooting commercials and music videos. So I am looking for a D.P. out here who appreciates the the visual work of Mark Romanek, Jake Scott and Dariusz Wolski to name a few.

So here is the deal, I am looking to make some videos for free or lil money for bands so this leaves me paying-out of pocket for everything, including you. So all I can pay is 125 a day and if you have your own camera then I can go up to 200 a day. More than likely this will-be one to two day shoots. And any preproduction where you don't shoot but work I can pay 25 bucks a day with or without camera. Sound fair for non-profit job?
I want to shoot three videos in the next two months, so hopefully this will all be with the same DP. I produce, edit and direct so the crew will most likely just be me, you and a make-up/hair person and a intern(if we are lucky).
So of course if we rock these videos out, this can lead to work for us. I have a few good contacts in the music video world, but need something to show them. So if this sounds like something you want to engage in, hit me up with your work.
Please send a link to your online portfolio or be willing to send me a DVD of your work. I must be able to have seen your work. If you are a student that's cool, but just please have something to show. I come from the Ridley Scott school of things, so please be dramatic and classy."

As someone kindly already pointed out on the NY craiglist crew forum, the crew of director, DP, intern, and hair/makeup person ain't gonna cut it for doing something that looks really polished, unless you take a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllly long time. You just can't move fast/efficiently with that few people. So he's gonna pay people to make a product that's inferior to what he wants (referring to the DP influences he mentioned). That's my effort for the week. I think.

James Emory · December 29th, 2005, 11:56 PM

Now, aren't most free labor music videos for up and coming music video artists?

"....that can also act as a production manager and deal with money" - Did they say money? I wonder if that producer will be asking, why can't they pay me some of that money that I will be managing for free! If he's slick enough, he can make sure he gets paid. Ha ha!

"Need experienced Producer looking for more experience and a fun job! This is a very low budget gig with high profile on the rise industry people. The director is Wade J. Robson. You can google his name and find out all about him. Also check out iquestionmark.com to see his directorial work. This is a hi def 2 day music video shoot in the bay area in the middle of January 2006. Need a producer that can also act as a production manager and deal with money, permits, equipment, etc. Not looking for major credits, just experience. Could even be good film school experience. Producer must know San Francisco well.
This music video is for City Boyz Music artist "Champ Bailey." http://myspace.com/champbailey
He is a rising bay area based rap star. Please send resume/bio's asap!

Compensation: We will be able to pay something but this is mainly for someone looking for experience and interested in working with the people involved. "

James Emory · December 31st, 2005, 05:13 PM

"Do you have skills?

"LOOKING FOR THAT EXPOSURE IN THE ACTING FIELD"?

Local company seeking an exprience person, to shoot
a 30 second commercial 3 to 4 hour job.

INTERSHIP OR EXPERIENCE REQUIRED.
This assignment will be given by the 15th of JANUARY

Job location is ATLANTA

Compensation: hourly pay"

Craig Seeman · January 2nd, 2006, 08:40 AM

Nothing crazy mind you. Just shoot and edit an entire wedding and burn DVDs for $200. Of course using it for your reel "shouldn't be a problem. serious people only."

hi,
my sister is getting married in june, @ dantes in queens(very close to laguardia airport) and she needs a videographer. basically we need you to film her leaving the house, ceremony and reception. she needs the film edited, nothing crazy(no baby pictures or anything like that) just something simple and nice, to be put on dvd. if you think you can help us it would be greatly appreciated, please email me @ starrlett84@yahoo.com with the following, name, phone, experience, can you definatly put it on dvd, do you have a camcorder, how long will editing take, you will be compensated with meal and $200. also if you want to make a copy of the video for your reel it should'nt be a problem. serious people only.

December 20th, 2005, 05:42 PM	#260
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	See, nobody said that. Your one comment on the ad was something about "another person asking you to prove why you should have the privilege of working for free", so I thought that was your gripe. Now, if you'd simply said, "look at this obvious loser who's acting like his internship would be worth anything when he's clearly not a legit production company and has no idea what he's talking about, as he's not provided a company name nor any contact info", that would be different. But I'll continue to police the thread, and judge ridiculousness as I see fit. Until then, my work is done flies away __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 20th, 2005, 08:43 PM	#261
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	James Emory! You are hereby charged with a double, triple and QUADRUPLE post all in the last two pages of this thread. I hereby dock you a combined total of NINE gold stars from the class list, and give you this pointy cap to wear for the rest of the semester. Anyway, I tried figuring out what you two (Jams and Josh) were discussing, but then I got bored, so uh.... lets get back on topic. :) __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

December 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM	#262
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Whether it's a paid position or an internship, either way it's an exchange of value or at least is supposed to be an exchange of value. I don't see any difference. Ten years ago we had a college intern at my production studio in San Marcos and it worked out great. It was listed as unpaid but we paid the guy whenever possible, "blue sky" money, even if it was just $50 or $100 here and there, for a 12-hours-per-week kind of deal. I cringe when I read those "tell me why you should intern for me for free" ads. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 21st, 2005, 01:26 PM	#263
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I know, I know. Cringe away, but, as an example, VT2, a well-known Houston production company, offered an internship, and I believe they also asked that you tell them why you were worthy. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 25th, 2005, 11:58 PM	#265
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Well, it finally happened, Being from Atlanta and having many cheap friends, combined with James' love for this thread I knew it would happen sooner or later. But I believe I know the poster of the "emmy winner" thread, I wonder if it was a regional emmy. OH and did anyone catch this one? Um All he needs is your address, name and SS#!!!!! That's just so wrong. I wonder if the rest of the money will be raised via credit card.... Reply to: XXX@XXX.com Date: 2005-12-19, 4:57PM EST Hi, my name is Petie. I am an NYU student from Atlanta and I am working on a music video/short film project for this summer. I am trying to assemble a crew at the moment. I would like to employ all student film makers if possible. i thought it would be cool if we were all students working on the project, you know, help each other out. I am looking for grips, electricians, ac's, the works. So please send me an email with your name, address so I can mail you further information, ss# for legal and organization purposes and then a casual resume of work and film experience. Also include the position(s) you would like, duh. I currently have a little less than $5000 put away for this, so it will be paid. I am hoping to raise more by the summer, but we'll see. I am also talking with Mos Def's representation about having him play the lead. But that's not at all a done deal-everybody needs a dream though, right? Well thanks to anybody who follows up on this. Please ask any questions or voice any concerns. Thanks -Petie this is in or around Atlanta-all over no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Compensation: unknown-but there will be pay __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

December 20th, 2005, 02:11 PM	#256
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	All I'm saying is that I have alot of experience and have been exposed to all sorts of situations and proposals and still have not seen it all. All of this knowledge came with time, which you WILL eventually learn, grasshopper. I talk to others with much more experience than me to learn about what to look for and have learned alot that way. I will admit that I have fallen for a few of these nice, innocent posts before only to get screwed after trusting them. Some people specialize in deception. Most legitimate employers even internships provide contact information and are very specific about what they want. Most shady people are very vague and don't reveal any specifics so you can't check up on them. Why do you think that is?

December 20th, 2005, 02:37 PM	#258
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	I had a situation last spring where someone wanted to produce a children's television pilot. She had a finished script and talked a goooood game. We met and discussed production gear needs to get it done. We scouted the locations and I gave her a proposal. She said that was fine and we would roll in a few days. Well, I never got my deposit check for the gear rentals so I called her because it was just a few days before we rolled. Josh, the whole time she NEVER had the money!! I spent all that time planning, scouting, making a proposal and putting together cameras, jib, grip/electric and lighting packages all FOR NOTHING! But her post was so straight forward and she was so nice. She blamed it on her "investors", what investors? Either you have the money or you don't. She told us beforehand that she already had the money at least for production. These types of people are mentally ill and live in a fantasy world. They want to feel important so bad that they will go through the motions to get that feeling. She damaged her reputation more than she knows. Ironically, that was a valuable learning experience for me to be able to recognize the warning signs of bad projects in the future and it has paid off. Bad projects don't stop with me, the UPM in some cases. It makes me look bad with the rental houses and the crew. If you constantly reserve gear and then cancel because of these risky projects, you could lose deposits and/or your credibility for making business decisions about projects. Also, in some cases if you reserve a crew and you cancel, depending on terms, you could be charged cacellation fees and in some cases full day rates to cover their lost work days. You need to experience some of this first hand and then come back and tell me to take it easy on these folks.

December 20th, 2005, 04:02 PM	#259
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	With 25 years under my belt in this industry, going from messanger to senior editor and video engineer at some big post facilities as well as boutiques and getting my own small business off the ground . . . I agree with James completely. I know how PROFESSIONAL facilities handle this and see the lies wannabes make. I see the same red flags James saw. Internships usually means being MENTORED by someone with more experience NOT taking a lead roll (at least not until you're trained). College Credit means the SCHOOL will approve the credit. You can't simply offer it. The facility or person offering the internship should have a track record including their work and promotion from within to paying positions.

December 21st, 2005, 05:17 PM	#264
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Sorry, my non-video related company ALWAYS pays interns. AND there are very strict requirements from the university on how we create intership positions so that they do count for credit. That post is ridiculous without references.

December 26th, 2005, 01:11 AM	#267
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Ok, I know this isn't all that ridiculous, but look: "Hello I am 28 year old who just moved from south cali to NYC and now I am looking to start finding my posse of filmmaking buddies. I have made various short films as well as a feature film. However I am now interested in shooting commercials and music videos. So I am looking for a D.P. out here who appreciates the the visual work of Mark Romanek, Jake Scott and Dariusz Wolski to name a few. So here is the deal, I am looking to make some videos for free or lil money for bands so this leaves me paying-out of pocket for everything, including you. So all I can pay is 125 a day and if you have your own camera then I can go up to 200 a day. More than likely this will-be one to two day shoots. And any preproduction where you don't shoot but work I can pay 25 bucks a day with or without camera. Sound fair for non-profit job? I want to shoot three videos in the next two months, so hopefully this will all be with the same DP. I produce, edit and direct so the crew will most likely just be me, you and a make-up/hair person and a intern(if we are lucky). So of course if we rock these videos out, this can lead to work for us. I have a few good contacts in the music video world, but need something to show them. So if this sounds like something you want to engage in, hit me up with your work. Please send a link to your online portfolio or be willing to send me a DVD of your work. I must be able to have seen your work. If you are a student that's cool, but just please have something to show. I come from the Ridley Scott school of things, so please be dramatic and classy." As someone kindly already pointed out on the NY craiglist crew forum, the crew of director, DP, intern, and hair/makeup person ain't gonna cut it for doing something that looks really polished, unless you take a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllly long time. You just can't move fast/efficiently with that few people. So he's gonna pay people to make a product that's inferior to what he wants (referring to the DP influences he mentioned). That's my effort for the week. I think. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 29th, 2005, 11:56 PM	#268
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Now, aren't most free labor music videos for up and coming music video artists? "....that can also act as a production manager and deal with money" - Did they say money? I wonder if that producer will be asking, why can't they pay me some of that money that I will be managing for free! If he's slick enough, he can make sure he gets paid. Ha ha! "Need experienced Producer looking for more experience and a fun job! This is a very low budget gig with high profile on the rise industry people. The director is Wade J. Robson. You can google his name and find out all about him. Also check out iquestionmark.com to see his directorial work. This is a hi def 2 day music video shoot in the bay area in the middle of January 2006. Need a producer that can also act as a production manager and deal with money, permits, equipment, etc. Not looking for major credits, just experience. Could even be good film school experience. Producer must know San Francisco well. This music video is for City Boyz Music artist "Champ Bailey." http://myspace.com/champbailey He is a rising bay area based rap star. Please send resume/bio's asap! Compensation: We will be able to pay something but this is mainly for someone looking for experience and interested in working with the people involved. "

December 31st, 2005, 05:13 PM	#269
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	"Do you have skills? "LOOKING FOR THAT EXPOSURE IN THE ACTING FIELD"? Local company seeking an exprience person, to shoot a 30 second commercial 3 to 4 hour job. INTERSHIP OR EXPERIENCE REQUIRED. This assignment will be given by the 15th of JANUARY Job location is ATLANTA Compensation: hourly pay"

January 2nd, 2006, 08:40 AM	#270
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Nothing crazy mind you. Just shoot and edit an entire wedding and burn DVDs for $200. Of course using it for your reel "shouldn't be a problem. serious people only." hi, my sister is getting married in june, @ dantes in queens(very close to laguardia airport) and she needs a videographer. basically we need you to film her leaving the house, ceremony and reception. she needs the film edited, nothing crazy(no baby pictures or anything like that) just something simple and nice, to be put on dvd. if you think you can help us it would be greatly appreciated, please email me @ starrlett84@yahoo.com with the following, name, phone, experience, can you definatly put it on dvd, do you have a camcorder, how long will editing take, you will be compensated with meal and $200. also if you want to make a copy of the video for your reel it should'nt be a problem. serious people only.