Got "arrested" by mall cops. at DVinfo.net

Alex Knappenberger · May 4th, 2003, 04:57 PM

Hey guys, I just had a pretty funny experience. Me and 2 friends were filming for this video, and basically I got a bunch of shots, and we were right by the mall, and we went into the mall, and then I just walked around with my camera (turned off) and then I wanted to get a shot of my friend Jacob, laying on this brick wall type thing, and when I turned my camera on to get the shot, it became more obvious and the people cleaning there were like "GET OUT OF HERE*@$*#$*!!!".

So we left, without hesitation, because I had gotten the shot, and on the way out, Jacob grabbed this little crappy broom, to be funny, and he ended up walking out of the food court with it, and then this guy that does nothing but wipe off tables, came out running after us, and we all took off running, and I went in a differnet direction then Donovan and Jacob, and I got footage of this guy chasing them. Basically I am out of shape and I can't run fast, and I couldn't get across the street, because if I could of, I would of gotten away, so after Donovan and Jacob got across the street (I couldnt get across because there were cars coming and I am slow :D) the cleaning mall guy came running over to me, and grabs my shirt and starts going nuts. He was a black guy, and it was honestly pretty funny because I thought he was seriously stoned, he looked like someone on some pills or something.

After he like ripped my shirt yelling at me, he was like “I NEED EVERYTHING I NEED FOR ME TO NEED@**@”, seriously, he said that, and it made no sense, so I started laughing, and then these mall cop guys on this truck came flying over there at like 200MPH, and they made us go back to the “headquarters”, where basically they banned us for 6 months.

I have the paper right here, and we were banned for “THE ABOVE NAMED PERSON SHALL BE BANNED FROM THE CANTON CENTRE MALL FOR THE DURATION OF 6 MONTHS” “THE ABOVE NAMED PERSON IS BANNED FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS: disobeying mall rules/disobeying mall employees/theft of mall property”

Hahaha, mall rules? Basically what he meant by that is “copyright laws”, that’s the MAIN thing these guys were mad about, and I couldn’t make much sense of it. He was mad because we violated copyright laws by recording video in the mall, now tell me how the hell that makes any sense, especially when the ONLY thing that I recorded in the mall was my friend Jacob sitting laying on a brick wall thing, that’s all, seriously. The tiles on the wall are copywritten? WTF?! I wasn’t disobeying the mall employees, them guys were disobeying us, heh, and all the “theft of mall property” was for, was when my friend walked out with the broom, and he dropped it before we knew we were even being chased.

Mall cops think they own the world, and that guy was like “I’M GOING TO CALL REAL COPS AND HAVE YOU GUYS ARRESTED!!!!.” Haha, REAL cops wouldn’t do crap.

Yeah, so thats pretty much it, I left my camera recording the whole time in the "headquarters" and when they were chasing us and crap. I'm going to edit it up, and i'll post and if anyone wants to see it, i'll put it online, heh.

Now for the question to all the really smart people about this stuff, were we REALLY not following copyright laws by filming in the mall, especially just for personal use, and especially since the only thing we got on film was a brick wall by the bathrooms in the foodcourt.

(some of the things stated here might be repeated over and might not make sense, since I typed this fast).

Thanks.

Frank Granovski · May 4th, 2003, 06:03 PM

You got to keep the footage, I hope.

Chris Hurd · May 4th, 2003, 06:51 PM

A shopping mall is private property owned by whatever retail firm manages the place. It would be a mistake to assume it's public property and that you can freely tape there. Some tourists or families might have a camcorder on in a mall sometimes, no big deal, but the management is at their leisure to enforce their policies whenever they choose (they can legally say that shooting tape in their mall is okay for some people, as in tourists, but not others, as in you). Hope this helps,

Dylan Couper · May 4th, 2003, 10:37 PM

Mall security is alot more lax on videotaping if you aren't screwing around, acting like a dink, and stealing stuff while you do it.

Mark Richman · May 5th, 2003, 11:42 AM

Things probably would have be fine if you foolish friend would have acted a little more mature.

Just my 2 cents.

K. Forman · May 5th, 2003, 12:10 PM

I had a friend, a fellow videographer, that accompanied a group of semi-pro surfers to Puerto Rico for surf footage. What I saw of the footage as I transferred it for him, were 3 immature jerks, running through the airport, climbing up on the moving treadway's rails, and swearing. To top this off, they snuck onto a croc farm, and were harassing the baby crocs. The fact that there was a camera on them, just encouraged the behaviour, as if to show off.

What you and your friends did, was to create a disturbance, and by running off, create a possible hazard for anyone that may have been in the way. The fact that there was a camera on them, enticed them to act like bigger fools. It is because of immature stunts like this, that make it harder for decent folks to enjoy the mall, and decent videographers to access the mall for footage. Grow up.

Alex Knappenberger · May 5th, 2003, 12:17 PM

Keith, No. We weren't doing anything like that, you don't understand. We were attempting to get a shot for this silent film (video) that I am going to throw together, which is basically all weirdness, with some funky music.

Ken Tanaka · May 5th, 2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Alex: Basically I am out of shape and I can't run fast, and I couldn't get across the street,...

Just a tip: Fix that. No, not so that you can out-run security guards <g>. But few things will improve your camera handling abilities more than being in good shape. You'll see your general stamina and steadiness improve markedly. Not to mention all of the health and general outlook-on-life benefits a good exercise program will bring. At your young age this should be an easy thing to do, certainly easier than it will be 10 years from now.

Frank Granovski · May 5th, 2003, 01:34 PM

When I was between 9 and 13 years of age, Alex, I did some really dumb things. Like ride my CCM Charger 2-speed in the mall while the security were chasing me. (They never caught me.) My younger brother would put on a wig and stand perfectly still beside a display dummy, while I took pictures of him and the people faces that saw him. Sometimes I was real brave, and would throw an egg (or a snowball with a rock in it) at a police officer, and have him chase me. (I could out run anyone in those days. In fact, I used to go out at night and chase rabbits and hares. Even they couldn't out-run, out-dodge me.) And I wonder why my knees are all screwed up today. Yeah, I was stupid, but it was fun at the time. Now don't go picking up on any of these stupid thigs I did when I was young! We didn't have video cams in those days....

Rob Lohman · May 5th, 2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Now for the question to all the really smart people about this stuff, were we REALLY not following copyright laws by filming in the mall, especially just for personal use, and especially since the only thing we got on film was a brick wall by the bathrooms in the foodcourt.

Does anyone have thoughts on the actual question?

Ken Tanaka · May 5th, 2003, 03:18 PM

Actually I think Chris hit the nail on the head for that question. It's not a matter of copyright, it's a matter of rights. Shopping malls are private property and their management can selectively deny anyone the right to photograph on the property.

Frank Granovski · May 5th, 2003, 03:48 PM

No one ever complains when I take pictures of stuff in malls. When I see something unique, like a strange dummy or some strange toys, I give them a "click" or 2. But shooting people without their permission, well, I do this all the time but I do it in such a way that they (the subject) think I'm taking a pic about something else, or do it when no one is looking, or with their permission. Sometimes I get hired to do some shooting were I have to pretend that I'm just a tourist out shooting some of the buildings, mind you, I've been hired to shoot buildings as well.

Alex Knappenberger · May 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Actually I think Chris hit the nail on the head for that question. It's not a matter of copyright, it's a matter of rights. Shopping malls are private property and their management can selectively deny anyone the right to photograph on the property. -->>>

This video will be done in about a half hour, i'll put it on my FTP if you guys want to download it, and the guy kept repeating stuff about you cant film in there because of copyright laws, thats it. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about, I don't think HE knew what he was talking about.

Ken Tanaka · May 5th, 2003, 04:08 PM

Alex,
I strongly suspect that the guard didn't know anything copyright about laws. Nevertheless, regardless of what he said, he was within his rights to deny you from filming on the property and to eject you from the mall.

Managements of public places are understandably more nervous about seeing young males making videos on their properties. They see potential threats around every corner.

Boyd Ostroff · May 5th, 2003, 05:57 PM

Alex said:
"on the way out, Jacob grabbed this little crappy broom, to be funny, and he ended up walking out of the food court with it, and then this guy that does nothing but wipe off tables, came out running after us, and we all took off running"
--------------------------------------------------
After reading your first post, it seems to me like you just p*ssed off one of the janitors by making fun of him and stealing his little broom (no matter how "crappy" it was) then you made somewhat of a scene. No doubt this attracted the attention of the mall customers and angered the staff/management. So when they finally grabbed you they just came up with some excuse.

If you guys handled things a little better it probably wouldn't have escalated into such a big deal...

May 4th, 2003, 04:57 PM	#1
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Got "arrested" by mall cops. Hey guys, I just had a pretty funny experience. Me and 2 friends were filming for this video, and basically I got a bunch of shots, and we were right by the mall, and we went into the mall, and then I just walked around with my camera (turned off) and then I wanted to get a shot of my friend Jacob, laying on this brick wall type thing, and when I turned my camera on to get the shot, it became more obvious and the people cleaning there were like "GET OUT OF HERE@$#$!!!". So we left, without hesitation, because I had gotten the shot, and on the way out, Jacob grabbed this little crappy broom, to be funny, and he ended up walking out of the food court with it, and then this guy that does nothing but wipe off tables, came out running after us, and we all took off running, and I went in a differnet direction then Donovan and Jacob, and I got footage of this guy chasing them. Basically I am out of shape and I can't run fast, and I couldn't get across the street, because if I could of, I would of gotten away, so after Donovan and Jacob got across the street (I couldnt get across because there were cars coming and I am slow :D) the cleaning mall guy came running over to me, and grabs my shirt and starts going nuts. He was a black guy, and it was honestly pretty funny because I thought he was seriously stoned, he looked like someone on some pills or something. After he like ripped my shirt yelling at me, he was like “I NEED EVERYTHING I NEED FOR ME TO NEED@*@”, seriously, he said that, and it made no sense, so I started laughing, and then these mall cop guys on this truck came flying over there at like 200MPH, and they made us go back to the “headquarters”, where basically they banned us for 6 months. I have the paper right here, and we were banned for “THE ABOVE NAMED PERSON SHALL BE BANNED FROM THE CANTON CENTRE MALL FOR THE DURATION OF 6 MONTHS” “THE ABOVE NAMED PERSON IS BANNED FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS: disobeying mall rules/disobeying mall employees/theft of mall property” Hahaha, mall rules? Basically what he meant by that is “copyright laws”, that’s the MAIN thing these guys were mad about, and I couldn’t make much sense of it. He was mad because we violated copyright laws by recording video in the mall, now tell me how the hell that makes any sense, especially when the ONLY thing that I recorded in the mall was my friend Jacob sitting laying on a brick wall thing, that’s all, seriously. The tiles on the wall are copywritten? WTF?! I wasn’t disobeying the mall employees, them guys were disobeying us, heh, and all the “theft of mall property” was for, was when my friend walked out with the broom, and he dropped it before we knew we were even being chased. Mall cops think they own the world, and that guy was like “I’M GOING TO CALL REAL COPS AND HAVE YOU GUYS ARRESTED!!!!.” Haha, REAL cops wouldn’t do crap. Yeah, so thats pretty much it, I left my camera recording the whole time in the "headquarters" and when they were chasing us and crap. I'm going to edit it up, and i'll post and if anyone wants to see it, i'll put it online, heh. Now for the question to all the really smart people about this stuff, were we REALLY not following copyright laws by filming in the mall, especially just for personal use, and especially since the only thing we got on film was a brick wall by the bathrooms in the foodcourt. (some of the things stated here might be repeated over and might not make sense, since I typed this fast). Thanks.

May 4th, 2003, 06:51 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	A shopping mall is private property owned by whatever retail firm manages the place. It would be a mistake to assume it's public property and that you can freely tape there. Some tourists or families might have a camcorder on in a mall sometimes, no big deal, but the management is at their leisure to enforce their policies whenever they choose (they can legally say that shooting tape in their mall is okay for some people, as in tourists, but not others, as in you). Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 4th, 2003, 10:37 PM	#4
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Mall security is alot more lax on videotaping if you aren't screwing around, acting like a dink, and stealing stuff while you do it. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 5th, 2003, 11:42 AM	#5
Mark Richman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota Posts: 79	Grabbing the broom was stupid Things probably would have be fine if you foolish friend would have acted a little more mature. Just my 2 cents. __________________ Green Novice turning Yellow Pro Soon to be Ripe - So stand back!

May 5th, 2003, 03:18 PM	#11
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Actually I think Chris hit the nail on the head for that question. It's not a matter of copyright, it's a matter of rights. Shopping malls are private property and their management can selectively deny anyone the right to photograph on the property. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 4th, 2003, 06:03 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	You got to keep the footage, I hope.

May 5th, 2003, 12:10 PM	#6
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I had a friend, a fellow videographer, that accompanied a group of semi-pro surfers to Puerto Rico for surf footage. What I saw of the footage as I transferred it for him, were 3 immature jerks, running through the airport, climbing up on the moving treadway's rails, and swearing. To top this off, they snuck onto a croc farm, and were harassing the baby crocs. The fact that there was a camera on them, just encouraged the behaviour, as if to show off. What you and your friends did, was to create a disturbance, and by running off, create a possible hazard for anyone that may have been in the way. The fact that there was a camera on them, enticed them to act like bigger fools. It is because of immature stunts like this, that make it harder for decent folks to enjoy the mall, and decent videographers to access the mall for footage. Grow up.

May 5th, 2003, 12:17 PM	#7
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Keith, No. We weren't doing anything like that, you don't understand. We were attempting to get a shot for this silent film (video) that I am going to throw together, which is basically all weirdness, with some funky music.

May 5th, 2003, 01:34 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	When I was between 9 and 13 years of age, Alex, I did some really dumb things. Like ride my CCM Charger 2-speed in the mall while the security were chasing me. (They never caught me.) My younger brother would put on a wig and stand perfectly still beside a display dummy, while I took pictures of him and the people faces that saw him. Sometimes I was real brave, and would throw an egg (or a snowball with a rock in it) at a police officer, and have him chase me. (I could out run anyone in those days. In fact, I used to go out at night and chase rabbits and hares. Even they couldn't out-run, out-dodge me.) And I wonder why my knees are all screwed up today. Yeah, I was stupid, but it was fun at the time. Now don't go picking up on any of these stupid thigs I did when I was young! We didn't have video cams in those days....

May 5th, 2003, 03:48 PM	#12
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	No one ever complains when I take pictures of stuff in malls. When I see something unique, like a strange dummy or some strange toys, I give them a "click" or 2. But shooting people without their permission, well, I do this all the time but I do it in such a way that they (the subject) think I'm taking a pic about something else, or do it when no one is looking, or with their permission. Sometimes I get hired to do some shooting were I have to pretend that I'm just a tourist out shooting some of the buildings, mind you, I've been hired to shoot buildings as well.

May 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM	#13
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Actually I think Chris hit the nail on the head for that question. It's not a matter of copyright, it's a matter of rights. Shopping malls are private property and their management can selectively deny anyone the right to photograph on the property. -->>> This video will be done in about a half hour, i'll put it on my FTP if you guys want to download it, and the guy kept repeating stuff about you cant film in there because of copyright laws, thats it. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about, I don't think HE knew what he was talking about.

May 5th, 2003, 04:08 PM	#14
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Alex, I strongly suspect that the guard didn't know anything copyright about laws. Nevertheless, regardless of what he said, he was within his rights to deny you from filming on the property and to eject you from the mall. Managements of public places are understandably more nervous about seeing young males making videos on their properties. They see potential threats around every corner. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 5th, 2003, 05:57 PM	#15
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,797	Alex said: "on the way out, Jacob grabbed this little crappy broom, to be funny, and he ended up walking out of the food court with it, and then this guy that does nothing but wipe off tables, came out running after us, and we all took off running" -------------------------------------------------- After reading your first post, it seems to me like you just p*ssed off one of the janitors by making fun of him and stealing his little broom (no matter how "crappy" it was) then you made somewhat of a scene. No doubt this attracted the attention of the mall customers and angered the staff/management. So when they finally grabbed you they just came up with some excuse. If you guys handled things a little better it probably wouldn't have escalated into such a big deal...