California Unions at DVinfo.net

Robert Bobson · April 3rd, 2003, 06:31 AM

If I wanted to hire 4 local videographers w/cameras to shoot a one-day event in a theater in California, can I do it non-union?

Don't know much about how this works. Any advice is appreciated.

Bob

Wayne Orr · April 3rd, 2003, 01:50 PM

I'll tell you this, Bob, it's a lot easier to shoot non-union in Los Angeles than it is in Detroit. I hired two guys to do audio for me in Detroit a couple years ago, and they wanted to hit me for overtime because we were shooting on Saturday! Then when they showed up, they really didn't know how to work with the VX1000's we had (which I mentioned in advance), and proceeded to screw up the audio which cost me extra bucks to fix back in LA.

But if you want to get in touch with me I can hook you up with some good shooters for a theatre production. If I have the time I'll do it myself. Just bring money. Go to http://www.digitalprods.com/motorcity.htm to see a clip from a music show we did with three PD150's and one 537. If you want more high end, we can set that up also, but the PD150's are great.

waynorr@hotmail.com

Robert Bobson · April 3rd, 2003, 07:27 PM

Thanks, Wayne. I'll keep you in mind when we get to that point.

And you're saying that a non-union shoot won't be a problem, yes?

Wayne Orr · April 3rd, 2003, 08:12 PM

The only way it would be a problem is if you are shooting in a strong union venue, and the stagehands insist you bring in a union crew. That is not a very likely scenario unless you are shooting in a very big house in Los Angeles.

Don Donatello · April 4th, 2003, 10:21 AM

what part of california ?

southern california should be no problem unless theater has a union contract ?

in SF area you probably can have non union camera's BUT the stagehands union might ask you to hire a few of their members.

allot depends on how big is the event ? if it's a local band playing at small club - shouldn't be a problem .. if it's a known band playing a name club/event then the Sf stagehands union will show up ( they also supply grips/electricians) ...

also they will want to know what is the purpose of the tape ? braodcast ? demo ?

as others have said much easier to shoot non union in LA then SF

Mike Butler · April 29th, 2003, 04:54 PM

OK, now that we are on the subject of California, what about San Diego? And how about Palm Springs.

Don Donatello · April 30th, 2003, 02:42 PM

all depends on what/where you are shooting and what size crew ...
if you are just out interviewing or doing a promo for a hotel with 2-5 person crew - no union is going to put up pickets ... if you are shooting at a large concert with a 30 person crew then that's another story.

Mike Butler · May 1st, 2003, 10:20 AM

OK, the gig is a national sales meeting, the size of the crew is the question. If we do it ourselves,it can be pretty lean and mean. For video acquisition, we can simply record the I-Mag signal by connecting a deck to the switcher output, then go one-man with XL1 on shoulder for candid footage outside the general session. Use the sound contractor's staff for lights, sound etc. I have done this before and it has worked out great. But how many electricians etc. will they make us use if it's a union shop!

Wayne Orr · May 1st, 2003, 10:51 AM

Why don't you just contact the event site headquarters and ask them what the situation is, instead of throwing this up for speculation on a video forum? I am certain that your video coverage is not going to determine the location of a national convention for your company. Just speak with the head of facilities at the location, tell him honestly what you want to do, and ask if there are any union stipulations.

Usually, problems arise when people try to "get away with something."

Mike Butler · May 1st, 2003, 11:50 AM

Well, I certainly will contact the venue once that has been chosen for sure by the powers that be. I also intend to solicit competitive bids --IF the venue's rules allow outside vendors! I'm just trying to get a feel for the "lay of the land" if anyone has any experiences in these markets, so that I can throw together a wild guess preliminary budget estimate when asked (before I spend the time to thoroughly calculate it). You are correct in saying that video alone is not going to be the deciding factor in choosing venues, but I can definitely state that the costs (of not just video but all A-V services which are my concern as well) are very much affected by the venue chosen, and the fact of being union or not will certainly be reflected in the price.

Nobody is "trying to get away with something!" But if listening to other people's experiences can help me save time with my research, I am foolish not to ask! It's best to know ahead of time.

BTW, the last place we had a meeting at was union, and we wound up not doing video at all! Just couldn't afford it.

April 3rd, 2003, 06:31 AM	#1
Robert Bobson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 585	California Unions If I wanted to hire 4 local videographers w/cameras to shoot a one-day event in a theater in California, can I do it non-union? Don't know much about how this works. Any advice is appreciated. Bob

April 3rd, 2003, 01:50 PM	#2
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	I'll tell you this, Bob, it's a lot easier to shoot non-union in Los Angeles than it is in Detroit. I hired two guys to do audio for me in Detroit a couple years ago, and they wanted to hit me for overtime because we were shooting on Saturday! Then when they showed up, they really didn't know how to work with the VX1000's we had (which I mentioned in advance), and proceeded to screw up the audio which cost me extra bucks to fix back in LA. But if you want to get in touch with me I can hook you up with some good shooters for a theatre production. If I have the time I'll do it myself. Just bring money. Go to http://www.digitalprods.com/motorcity.htm to see a clip from a music show we did with three PD150's and one 537. If you want more high end, we can set that up also, but the PD150's are great. waynorr@hotmail.com __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

April 3rd, 2003, 08:12 PM	#4
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	The only way it would be a problem is if you are shooting in a strong union venue, and the stagehands insist you bring in a union crew. That is not a very likely scenario unless you are shooting in a very big house in Los Angeles. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

April 29th, 2003, 04:54 PM	#6
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	OK, now that we are on the subject of California, what about San Diego? And how about Palm Springs. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

May 1st, 2003, 10:20 AM	#8
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	OK, the gig is a national sales meeting, the size of the crew is the question. If we do it ourselves,it can be pretty lean and mean. For video acquisition, we can simply record the I-Mag signal by connecting a deck to the switcher output, then go one-man with XL1 on shoulder for candid footage outside the general session. Use the sound contractor's staff for lights, sound etc. I have done this before and it has worked out great. But how many electricians etc. will they make us use if it's a union shop! __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

April 3rd, 2003, 07:27 PM	#3
Robert Bobson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 585	Thanks, Wayne. I'll keep you in mind when we get to that point. And you're saying that a non-union shoot won't be a problem, yes?

April 4th, 2003, 10:21 AM	#5
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	what part of california ? southern california should be no problem unless theater has a union contract ? in SF area you probably can have non union camera's BUT the stagehands union might ask you to hire a few of their members. allot depends on how big is the event ? if it's a local band playing at small club - shouldn't be a problem .. if it's a known band playing a name club/event then the Sf stagehands union will show up ( they also supply grips/electricians) ... also they will want to know what is the purpose of the tape ? braodcast ? demo ? as others have said much easier to shoot non union in LA then SF

April 30th, 2003, 02:42 PM	#7
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	all depends on what/where you are shooting and what size crew ... if you are just out interviewing or doing a promo for a hotel with 2-5 person crew - no union is going to put up pickets ... if you are shooting at a large concert with a 30 person crew then that's another story.

May 1st, 2003, 10:51 AM	#9
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Why don't you just contact the event site headquarters and ask them what the situation is, instead of throwing this up for speculation on a video forum? I am certain that your video coverage is not going to determine the location of a national convention for your company. Just speak with the head of facilities at the location, tell him honestly what you want to do, and ask if there are any union stipulations. Usually, problems arise when people try to "get away with something." __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 1st, 2003, 11:50 AM	#10
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Well, I certainly will contact the venue once that has been chosen for sure by the powers that be. I also intend to solicit competitive bids --IF the venue's rules allow outside vendors! I'm just trying to get a feel for the "lay of the land" if anyone has any experiences in these markets, so that I can throw together a wild guess preliminary budget estimate when asked (before I spend the time to thoroughly calculate it). You are correct in saying that video alone is not going to be the deciding factor in choosing venues, but I can definitely state that the costs (of not just video but all A-V services which are my concern as well) are very much affected by the venue chosen, and the fact of being union or not will certainly be reflected in the price. Nobody is "trying to get away with something!" But if listening to other people's experiences can help me save time with my research, I am foolish not to ask! It's best to know ahead of time. BTW, the last place we had a meeting at was union, and we wound up not doing video at all! Just couldn't afford it. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."