I'm getting bootlegged on Ebay at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · October 5th, 2006, 09:51 AM

Some asshole in the UK has decided to make a living on bootlegging a DVD series I produced a while back. He lists them continuously on Ebay, from time to time I go on and report them, and Ebay sometimes pulls them, but continues to let him repost them. I can track how many he has sold through his profile, and it is a lot. I'm starting to get pissed off at Ebay more than him, since he's made a couple grand off my work and they've let him do it.

Any suggestions?

Pete Bauer · October 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Hey Dylan, while I know the more satisfying approach would be to handle this with a baseball bat, maybe it is time for legal action? Him being across the Pond definitely makes it more difficult to go after him personally, but not impossible. If you're serious enough to take the financial risk and effort involved, you can not only go after the particular offender (civil, criminal, and getting his ISP to shut him off), but e-bay. Suing e-bay for a couple thousand dollars might not ruffle their feathers much, but getting the suit done as a well-publicized class action would definitely get their attention.

If you go with the baseball bat approach, though, I'm not sure the airlines will let you carry it onboard, so maybe need to take enough cash to buy a cricket bat instead.

Alastair Brown · October 5th, 2006, 11:37 AM

Hi,

Why not just flame all his auctions i.e. put in sky high bids then don't pay. If E-Bay hassle you, point out that you are doing it to protect your losses, something they are not!

I'm in the UK, anything I can help with?

Ben Winter · October 5th, 2006, 12:42 PM

I like Alastair's idea. Play his game and beat him at it.

I hate to highlight the irony, but didn't you write this?
http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/buyersguide/ebay.php

Matt DeJonge · October 5th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Bold, Ben. Very bold. ;)

Paul Jefferies · October 5th, 2006, 05:39 PM

try contacting the UK anti -piracy organisation fact http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/ they may be able to help

Barry Gribble · October 5th, 2006, 06:28 PM

Ben,

No irony there... the topics are only marginally related.

Sorry to hear about it Dylan... The upside is that people like your work :). If he's making money on it, you should be making more...

Mike Teutsch · October 5th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Dylan,

I have a private phone number to ebay. If you like I can give it to you or call on your behalf. Otherwise, putting an exceptionally high bid on all auctions is a neat idea, but may not last for long.

It would be better to call then.

Mike

Sharyn Ferrick · October 5th, 2006, 07:35 PM

How did you copywrite the dvd in the US? Did you officially file or just claim copywrite? One thing that people sometimes miss is that inorder to take legal action, you need to have filed, it does not mean that your works are not copywrited, it just means that you cannot take legal action.

Have you filed for copywrite in the UK?

responding to one illegal action with another is usually not a good idea.

Sharyn

Glenn Chan · October 5th, 2006, 08:17 PM

You can use Bid-o-Matic and other automatic bidding programs to automatically place a bid at the last minute.

This may not be illegal, since it doesn't seem to go against any written law (*I have not read your country's laws). And hopefully eBay will take your side.
**Paypal has a shady TOS and shady business practices when it comes to disputes. So protect your money, and use a credit card to fund purchases (because credit cards let you make chargebacks).

Sharyn Ferrick · October 5th, 2006, 08:29 PM

Your best approach is to just keep reporting the problem to ebay. If you bid at the last minute, and then don't pay, the seller can leave you negative feedback and Ebay is not going to help you in the least.

Ebay generally does not have a way to monitor all this stuff, so you need to let them know,BUT IF IT keeps happening you might be able to get them to suspend the persons account.

Cross border disputes like this are really hard to deal with, you have the burden of proof, you need to take action in that persons country, etc, you are looking at a lot of expense. Keep in mind that in the UK most lawyers do not work on a percentage of the winnings, so it usually is not practical.

Sharyn

Richard Alvarez · October 5th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Dylan,

I can't speak to the laws in Canada and the UK, but in the U.S. IF you have registered the copyright BEFORE the infringement takes place, you will be awarded attorney's fees in addition to damages. This makes it much easier to get an attorney on contingency... having it already registered.

IF it is not registered, then go to a 'lawyers for the arts' program, every major city has one... and see if they can dig up an attorney pro-bono.

Get the attorney to write to this guy, AND ebay. You'll have more response from an attorney's letter to ebay, than your own.

Get an attorney either way.

Sharyn Ferrick · October 6th, 2006, 12:38 AM

I have spent years doing business re IP in US and UK. The problem is that the person is in the UK so having action taken against them in the US is useless.
At the same time unless your property is of high value or the volume is high value, the Attny's will have little or no interest. Ebay only responds to Court orders in most cases. If you contact Ebay and you keep pointing out the problem as I said they will possibly close the account. The problem you have is proving the situation. You need to prove it is your IP, and you need to prove that this person is using it illegally.

A lot of people will give you encouraging advice, but from years of experience unless there is a lot of money involved or you are willing to pay it is difficult to really do much about it.

Sharyn

Richard Alvarez · October 6th, 2006, 09:20 AM

EBAY can be shut down for knowingly allowing infringement of copywritten material. This is part of the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act).

KNOWINGLY is the operative word. IS the product registered. HAS proof been provided to Ebay?

Back to "Get a lawyer" Dylan. At the very least, go see a Lawyers for the Arts foundation to get an assesment of your situation from an IP attorney. That's what they do. (I know, my wife is an IP attorney, and she used to volunteer for an Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts Council.... long ago.)

Eveything on this board is just 'friendly advice' and should not be construed as legal council. It is, quite literally, worth what you pay for it.

Marco Wagner · October 6th, 2006, 09:44 AM

Start selling the thing yourself, undercut his prices, include a disclaimer on your ebay site NOT to buy from the ILLEGAL seller.

Gimme his link, I love toying with these jokers.

October 5th, 2006, 09:51 AM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I'm getting bootlegged on Ebay Some asshole in the UK has decided to make a living on bootlegging a DVD series I produced a while back. He lists them continuously on Ebay, from time to time I go on and report them, and Ebay sometimes pulls them, but continues to let him repost them. I can track how many he has sold through his profile, and it is a lot. I'm starting to get pissed off at Ebay more than him, since he's made a couple grand off my work and they've let him do it. Any suggestions? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM	#2
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hey Dylan, while I know the more satisfying approach would be to handle this with a baseball bat, maybe it is time for legal action? Him being across the Pond definitely makes it more difficult to go after him personally, but not impossible. If you're serious enough to take the financial risk and effort involved, you can not only go after the particular offender (civil, criminal, and getting his ISP to shut him off), but e-bay. Suing e-bay for a couple thousand dollars might not ruffle their feathers much, but getting the suit done as a well-publicized class action would definitely get their attention. If you go with the baseball bat approach, though, I'm not sure the airlines will let you carry it onboard, so maybe need to take enough cash to buy a cricket bat instead. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

October 5th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#4
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	I like Alastair's idea. Play his game and beat him at it. I hate to highlight the irony, but didn't you write this? http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/buyersguide/ebay.php __________________ BenWinter.com

October 5th, 2006, 03:48 PM	#5
Matt DeJonge Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 37	Bold, Ben. Very bold. ;) __________________ AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ / 2GB RAM / nVidia 7900GT Dual Head, 3x500GB HD Adobe CS3, LightWave 3D 9.3

October 5th, 2006, 06:28 PM	#7
Barry Gribble Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 817	Ben, No irony there... the topics are only marginally related. Sorry to hear about it Dylan... The upside is that people like your work :). If he's making money on it, you should be making more... __________________ Barry Gribble Integral Arts, IMDB

October 5th, 2006, 11:37 AM	#3
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Hi, Why not just flame all his auctions i.e. put in sky high bids then don't pay. If E-Bay hassle you, point out that you are doing it to protect your losses, something they are not! I'm in the UK, anything I can help with?

October 5th, 2006, 05:39 PM	#6
Paul Jefferies Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Croydon, England Posts: 277	try contacting the UK anti -piracy organisation fact http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/ they may be able to help

October 5th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#8
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Dylan, I have a private phone number to ebay. If you like I can give it to you or call on your behalf. Otherwise, putting an exceptionally high bid on all auctions is a neat idea, but may not last for long. It would be better to call then. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

October 5th, 2006, 07:35 PM	#9
Sharyn Ferrick Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 128	How did you copywrite the dvd in the US? Did you officially file or just claim copywrite? One thing that people sometimes miss is that inorder to take legal action, you need to have filed, it does not mean that your works are not copywrited, it just means that you cannot take legal action. Have you filed for copywrite in the UK? responding to one illegal action with another is usually not a good idea. Sharyn

October 5th, 2006, 08:17 PM	#10
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You can use Bid-o-Matic and other automatic bidding programs to automatically place a bid at the last minute. This may not be illegal, since it doesn't seem to go against any written law (I have not read your country's laws). And hopefully eBay will take your side. *Paypal has a shady TOS and shady business practices when it comes to disputes. So protect your money, and use a credit card to fund purchases (because credit cards let you make chargebacks).

October 5th, 2006, 08:29 PM	#11
Sharyn Ferrick Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 128	Your best approach is to just keep reporting the problem to ebay. If you bid at the last minute, and then don't pay, the seller can leave you negative feedback and Ebay is not going to help you in the least. Ebay generally does not have a way to monitor all this stuff, so you need to let them know,BUT IF IT keeps happening you might be able to get them to suspend the persons account. Cross border disputes like this are really hard to deal with, you have the burden of proof, you need to take action in that persons country, etc, you are looking at a lot of expense. Keep in mind that in the UK most lawyers do not work on a percentage of the winnings, so it usually is not practical. Sharyn

October 5th, 2006, 08:37 PM	#12
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Dylan, I can't speak to the laws in Canada and the UK, but in the U.S. IF you have registered the copyright BEFORE the infringement takes place, you will be awarded attorney's fees in addition to damages. This makes it much easier to get an attorney on contingency... having it already registered. IF it is not registered, then go to a 'lawyers for the arts' program, every major city has one... and see if they can dig up an attorney pro-bono. Get the attorney to write to this guy, AND ebay. You'll have more response from an attorney's letter to ebay, than your own. Get an attorney either way.

October 6th, 2006, 12:38 AM	#13
Sharyn Ferrick Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 128	I have spent years doing business re IP in US and UK. The problem is that the person is in the UK so having action taken against them in the US is useless. At the same time unless your property is of high value or the volume is high value, the Attny's will have little or no interest. Ebay only responds to Court orders in most cases. If you contact Ebay and you keep pointing out the problem as I said they will possibly close the account. The problem you have is proving the situation. You need to prove it is your IP, and you need to prove that this person is using it illegally. A lot of people will give you encouraging advice, but from years of experience unless there is a lot of money involved or you are willing to pay it is difficult to really do much about it. Sharyn

October 6th, 2006, 09:20 AM	#14
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	EBAY can be shut down for knowingly allowing infringement of copywritten material. This is part of the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). KNOWINGLY is the operative word. IS the product registered. HAS proof been provided to Ebay? Back to "Get a lawyer" Dylan. At the very least, go see a Lawyers for the Arts foundation to get an assesment of your situation from an IP attorney. That's what they do. (I know, my wife is an IP attorney, and she used to volunteer for an Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts Council.... long ago.) Eveything on this board is just 'friendly advice' and should not be construed as legal council. It is, quite literally, worth what you pay for it.

October 6th, 2006, 09:44 AM	#15
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Start selling the thing yourself, undercut his prices, include a disclaimer on your ebay site NOT to buy from the ILLEGAL seller. Gimme his link, I love toying with these jokers. __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto