Sony gave me the big BALONEY!!!!

Craig Seeman · May 25th, 2006, 03:50 PM

Bruce,
Check to see if your unit has the serial number on it or whether it was removed. That's one way to tell if it's grey market.

Is it clear that the documentation is in English and "original" or is it photocopied?

Did it include a Warranty card/information (do they still do that?) in the manual?

The fact that Sony wants to see your receipt to me indicates that they no longer judge the warranty by the serial number alone. I have a hunch Sony has taken the position that they will not honor the warranty if you bought it from an unauthorized dealer even if the serial number marks it as a legit USA destined model.

I remember being at a trade show and talking to a Sony rep and for some reason they practically interrogated me on whether the cameras I purchased where from authorized dealers or not. I wasn't bringing it in for service. This was at a trade show.

Bruce S. Yarock · May 25th, 2006, 09:40 PM

Craig-
The serial number is present, in english. All of the paperwork is present.I have a friend who bought one from a "dealer', and the contained paperwork is EXACTLY the same.
The difference between the greedy,irresponsable multinational, and the smaller company interested in it's customers, can be seen by noting which companies have a presence on the net forums.
When I had a problem with one of my Firestore FS4's, Matt Mcewan from Videonics answered me right here on this forum. When I needed to send back a unit which I bought used, but was still under warranty, there was no interrogation as to what type of dealer I bought it from.
There are many responsable comapnies in this industry. Sony is NOT one of them. Sony is too big, too powerfull,too impersonal, and too greedy to concern themselves with customer service (unless the customer is spending BIG money).
As I said earlier, not one more penny of mine goes to that bloated multi...
Bruce S. Yarock

Glenn Davidson · May 25th, 2006, 10:02 PM

Maybe I missed it, but what was the specific reason Sony gave for not honoring the warranty?

Bruce S. Yarock · May 25th, 2006, 10:06 PM

Glenn,
For the whole thread, go back to part one. The reason I got from Sony's Indonsesian customer service robot was that I hadn't bought it from a "sony authorized dealer".
Bruce Yarock

Ash Greyson · May 25th, 2006, 11:01 PM

Dont surrender so early Bruce. The guy you bought it from may be able to submit it for a warranty repair. At some point, SOMEBODY got it from an autorized dealer. Worst case for you is that the warranty began when THEY purchased it. The other thing you can do, is contact the state attorney general in your state as well as the BBB. Trust me when I tell you that even these small cases are treated with amazing respect by both parties.

If indeed the camera IS grey market... you are just plain SOL... not Sony's fault at all, just a brutal lesson. In your paperwork should be a warranty card or paper, if it says USA Warranty, I am confident you will get the unit repaired for free. If it says International Warranty, that means it is grey market and not meant for USA sale. There have been some cases of people switching warranty papers but it is pretty rare...

ash =o)

Andrew Farrell · May 26th, 2006, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce S. Yarock

Chris,
The guy I bought it from has never actually sold an expensive cam before. He buys close out lots of electronics from liquidation auctions.

I think your answer is buried here. A quick $400 save by someone who has never sold expensive cameras before should have had you questioning its authenticity. Authorised dealers may add a small premium to the price but it's that premium that is your life line when something goes wrong.

Bruce S. Yarock · May 26th, 2006, 05:15 AM

"I think your answer is buried here. A quick $400 save by someone who has never sold expensive cameras before should have had you questioning its authenticity"

You're trying to make it sound like the cam wasn't authentic. That's ridiculous.
Everything in the new sealed box-camera, paperwork, etc., was EXACTLY the same as any other FX1 bought in the US. The fact that sony refuses to honor the warranty on a new FX1 is the real issue.
There are loads of reputable companies that DO honor their warranties, regardless of who sells their product.
As I said in my first post- For future purchases, I'll never buy anything more expensive than a roll of gaffers tape from anyone other than B+H.But I'll NEVER buy another sony product either.
Bruce Yarock

Craig Seeman · May 26th, 2006, 08:09 PM

Bruce,

It sounds like you have a legit US model. Again, I think Sony's game is that if the dealer isn't "authorized" they won't honor the warranty.

I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony.

Giving a dealer "authorized" support is one thing. Honoring a warrantied unit is something different. The dealer can't be the "go between" in this case but I believe you have the right to expect warranty service on a unit which doesn't appear to be grey market.

Jeff Emery · May 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM

Gee Bruce,

Like others here, I'm sorry to hear about the unfortunate problem you have with your camera. Your frustration with Sony's response is quite evident. I don't know what the entire story is behind the camera so I won't take your side or Sony's side.

I am a bit curious though as to how the camera came into the possession of the seller you bought from. You said the camera was New, Sealed in the box. What explanation, if any, did he give you for how he happened to have it? And, if it was sealed in the box, why did he open it for you? What if you didn't buy it? Would he advertise it to the next person as "new, sealed in the box?" I've seen some ebay sellers who claim "it's brand new in the box", then they go on to say the box was opened to verify that all the accessories were there. Was that the case with this box?

And if he is local, can or did you get in touch with him and ask him to return your money? Maybe that would resolve your problem as far as that specific camera goes. Then you don't have to be concerned with Sony's service.

If he is a seller of any kind, he could possibly be held liable for selling you a defective product. Consult your local laws or an attorney regarding that. Did you get any kind of receipt that stated you were buying "as is"?

I personally own 3 VX2100's. My first one I bought from a guy on ebay. The others came from B&H. Fortunately, the ebay 2100 has performed great. I haven't had to deal with Sony's customer service over any repair issues so I don't know how they would treat me if I had to.

Good Luck

Jeff

Bruce S. Yarock · May 26th, 2006, 10:06 PM

"I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony."

Craig,
Thanks for the input. Once I get the camera back, I'll look into taking some kind of action.

Jeff,
I've been talking to the guy who sold it to me, and he's obviously concerned about my suing him. I told him to try and get me an invoice from an "authorized dealer", or come up with some $$.
The story I got from him was that he bought it at auction from a liquidator in New Jersey. But then...who knows? the box was sealed and had all the correct paperwork. As far as I can see, sony quite simply wants to squirm out of warrantying as many defective products as possible.
Bruce S. Yarock

Jeff Emery · May 26th, 2006, 10:24 PM

Bruce,

I thought I had read the thread thoroughly but, I guess I missed it. You said "Once I get the camera back". Where is the camera?

And quite honestly, I think you will be better off going for a return of money from the seller.

What are you really after? Trying to win a battle with Sony's Warranty Department so you can have THAT camera, or just getting your money back so you can get a different camera that won't cause you grief?

Get the cash if you can. Go to small claims court if needed.

Jeff

Glenn Davidson · May 26th, 2006, 10:33 PM

Sony's limited warranty clearly states that they need a "proof of purchase in the form of sales or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the Warranty period". I don't think that the Ebay seller invoice is good to establish that date of sale. Even if the seller finds the original invoice, which sounds unlikley, it has probably been over a year, don't you think?

Greg Boston · May 26th, 2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Davidson

Sony's limited warranty clearly states that they need a "proof of purchase in the form of sales or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the Warranty period". I don't think that the Ebay seller invoice is good to establish that date. Even if the seller finds the original invoice, which sounds unlikley, it is probably been over a year, don't you think?

Glenn,

Bruce's contention is that he has an invoice from the one who sold the camera to him and that Sony's warranty verbiage doesn't specify 'from an authorized Sony dealer'. But that's what they are telling him.

In Sony's mind, the camera is gray market if it hasn't been sold to the end user by an 'authorized Sony dealer' because there should be no other way to obtain a new, sealed in the box camera.

Also, keep in mind that Bruce got the camera from a seller who claims to have purchased it from a 'liquidator'. Ok, so how did the liquidator come into possession of the camera? Did the liquidator purchase it from an 'authorized Sony dealer' who was going out of business or a wholesaler?

I too feel bad about what happened to Bruce, but I also have some questions as did Jeff Emery earlier in this thread.

I also have to put on the wrangler hat for a moment to remind everyone that personal rants are a violation of DVINFO posting policy. We probably need to let this thread die down until Bruce has some relevant info on the outcome. Continuing to badmouth the manufacturer isn't going to do any good and likely won't be tolerated. The point has been made, now let's sit back and wait for the outcome.

regards,

-gb-

Frank Granovski · May 26th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Really? They won't honour their warranty? This gives me an idea to start a new website called, DVpoo.com. :-)

J. Stephen McDonald · May 27th, 2006, 02:04 AM

Bruce, you mentioned the possibility of buying an after-market, independent extended warranty. If you can find a reliable warranty company that will cover this camcorder at this point in the process and it is reasonably priced, I'd definitely do that. This current repair problem is probably a loss for you, but over the next 4 or 5 years, it's very likely you'll need more repairs and they might cost much more.

Trying to squeeze money out of Sony would be a waste of time, in my opinion and you'd probably lose even more money in trying it. Unless you could prove that this "clearance-sale" dealer mislead you into believing that he was authorized by Sony, you wouldn't have much of a case against him. Of course, you could always ask him to refund your money or take some action that would benefit you in this affair. If it appears that the fault was present when the camcorder was delivered, this might lead to a pleasant surprise, if he wants your continued business and goodwill.

Your experience has put the rest of us on guard against getting into this situation. Before buying anything from anyone, I always check with the manufacturer to certify that it is truly an authorized dealer. I've seen more than one dealer that claimed to be authorized for numerous brands, but the manufacturers said they weren't.

May 27th, 2006, 02:04 AM	#30
J. Stephen McDonald Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 909	Bruce, you mentioned the possibility of buying an after-market, independent extended warranty. If you can find a reliable warranty company that will cover this camcorder at this point in the process and it is reasonably priced, I'd definitely do that. This current repair problem is probably a loss for you, but over the next 4 or 5 years, it's very likely you'll need more repairs and they might cost much more. Trying to squeeze money out of Sony would be a waste of time, in my opinion and you'd probably lose even more money in trying it. Unless you could prove that this "clearance-sale" dealer mislead you into believing that he was authorized by Sony, you wouldn't have much of a case against him. Of course, you could always ask him to refund your money or take some action that would benefit you in this affair. If it appears that the fault was present when the camcorder was delivered, this might lead to a pleasant surprise, if he wants your continued business and goodwill. Your experience has put the rest of us on guard against getting into this situation. Before buying anything from anyone, I always check with the manufacturer to certify that it is truly an authorized dealer. I've seen more than one dealer that claimed to be authorized for numerous brands, but the manufacturers said they weren't. __________________ Steve McDonald https://onedrive.com/?cid=229807ce52dd4fe0 http://www.flickr.com/photos/22121562@N00/ http://www.vimeo.com/user458315/videos

May 25th, 2006, 03:50 PM	#16
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Bruce, Check to see if your unit has the serial number on it or whether it was removed. That's one way to tell if it's grey market. Is it clear that the documentation is in English and "original" or is it photocopied? Did it include a Warranty card/information (do they still do that?) in the manual? The fact that Sony wants to see your receipt to me indicates that they no longer judge the warranty by the serial number alone. I have a hunch Sony has taken the position that they will not honor the warranty if you bought it from an unauthorized dealer even if the serial number marks it as a legit USA destined model. I remember being at a trade show and talking to a Sony rep and for some reason they practically interrogated me on whether the cameras I purchased where from authorized dealers or not. I wasn't bringing it in for service. This was at a trade show.

May 25th, 2006, 09:40 PM	#17
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Craig- The serial number is present, in english. All of the paperwork is present.I have a friend who bought one from a "dealer', and the contained paperwork is EXACTLY the same. The difference between the greedy,irresponsable multinational, and the smaller company interested in it's customers, can be seen by noting which companies have a presence on the net forums. When I had a problem with one of my Firestore FS4's, Matt Mcewan from Videonics answered me right here on this forum. When I needed to send back a unit which I bought used, but was still under warranty, there was no interrogation as to what type of dealer I bought it from. There are many responsable comapnies in this industry. Sony is NOT one of them. Sony is too big, too powerfull,too impersonal, and too greedy to concern themselves with customer service (unless the customer is spending BIG money). As I said earlier, not one more penny of mine goes to that bloated multi... Bruce S. Yarock

May 25th, 2006, 10:02 PM	#18
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	Maybe I missed it, but what was the specific reason Sony gave for not honoring the warranty?

May 25th, 2006, 10:06 PM	#19
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Glenn, For the whole thread, go back to part one. The reason I got from Sony's Indonsesian customer service robot was that I hadn't bought it from a "sony authorized dealer". Bruce Yarock

May 25th, 2006, 11:01 PM	#20
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Dont surrender so early Bruce. The guy you bought it from may be able to submit it for a warranty repair. At some point, SOMEBODY got it from an autorized dealer. Worst case for you is that the warranty began when THEY purchased it. The other thing you can do, is contact the state attorney general in your state as well as the BBB. Trust me when I tell you that even these small cases are treated with amazing respect by both parties. If indeed the camera IS grey market... you are just plain SOL... not Sony's fault at all, just a brutal lesson. In your paperwork should be a warranty card or paper, if it says USA Warranty, I am confident you will get the unit repaired for free. If it says International Warranty, that means it is grey market and not meant for USA sale. There have been some cases of people switching warranty papers but it is pretty rare... ash =o)

May 26th, 2006, 05:15 AM	#22
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	"I think your answer is buried here. A quick $400 save by someone who has never sold expensive cameras before should have had you questioning its authenticity" You're trying to make it sound like the cam wasn't authentic. That's ridiculous. Everything in the new sealed box-camera, paperwork, etc., was EXACTLY the same as any other FX1 bought in the US. The fact that sony refuses to honor the warranty on a new FX1 is the real issue. There are loads of reputable companies that DO honor their warranties, regardless of who sells their product. As I said in my first post- For future purchases, I'll never buy anything more expensive than a roll of gaffers tape from anyone other than B+H.But I'll NEVER buy another sony product either. Bruce Yarock

May 26th, 2006, 08:09 PM	#23
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Bruce, It sounds like you have a legit US model. Again, I think Sony's game is that if the dealer isn't "authorized" they won't honor the warranty. I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony. Giving a dealer "authorized" support is one thing. Honoring a warrantied unit is something different. The dealer can't be the "go between" in this case but I believe you have the right to expect warranty service on a unit which doesn't appear to be grey market.

May 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM	#24
Jeff Emery Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 222	Gee Bruce, Like others here, I'm sorry to hear about the unfortunate problem you have with your camera. Your frustration with Sony's response is quite evident. I don't know what the entire story is behind the camera so I won't take your side or Sony's side. I am a bit curious though as to how the camera came into the possession of the seller you bought from. You said the camera was New, Sealed in the box. What explanation, if any, did he give you for how he happened to have it? And, if it was sealed in the box, why did he open it for you? What if you didn't buy it? Would he advertise it to the next person as "new, sealed in the box?" I've seen some ebay sellers who claim "it's brand new in the box", then they go on to say the box was opened to verify that all the accessories were there. Was that the case with this box? And if he is local, can or did you get in touch with him and ask him to return your money? Maybe that would resolve your problem as far as that specific camera goes. Then you don't have to be concerned with Sony's service. If he is a seller of any kind, he could possibly be held liable for selling you a defective product. Consult your local laws or an attorney regarding that. Did you get any kind of receipt that stated you were buying "as is"? I personally own 3 VX2100's. My first one I bought from a guy on ebay. The others came from B&H. Fortunately, the ebay 2100 has performed great. I haven't had to deal with Sony's customer service over any repair issues so I don't know how they would treat me if I had to. Good Luck Jeff

May 26th, 2006, 10:06 PM	#25
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	"I don't think you should bear the burden if the camera is legit. I'd contact BBB, contact the state Attorney General and consider taking some action against Sony." Craig, Thanks for the input. Once I get the camera back, I'll look into taking some kind of action. Jeff, I've been talking to the guy who sold it to me, and he's obviously concerned about my suing him. I told him to try and get me an invoice from an "authorized dealer", or come up with some $$. The story I got from him was that he bought it at auction from a liquidator in New Jersey. But then...who knows? the box was sealed and had all the correct paperwork. As far as I can see, sony quite simply wants to squirm out of warrantying as many defective products as possible. Bruce S. Yarock

May 26th, 2006, 10:24 PM	#26
Jeff Emery Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 222	Bruce, I thought I had read the thread thoroughly but, I guess I missed it. You said "Once I get the camera back". Where is the camera? And quite honestly, I think you will be better off going for a return of money from the seller. What are you really after? Trying to win a battle with Sony's Warranty Department so you can have THAT camera, or just getting your money back so you can get a different camera that won't cause you grief? Get the cash if you can. Go to small claims court if needed. Jeff

May 26th, 2006, 10:33 PM	#27
Glenn Davidson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nevada City, California Posts: 499	Sony's limited warranty clearly states that they need a "proof of purchase in the form of sales or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the Warranty period". I don't think that the Ebay seller invoice is good to establish that date of sale. Even if the seller finds the original invoice, which sounds unlikley, it has probably been over a year, don't you think?

May 26th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#29
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Really? They won't honour their warranty? This gives me an idea to start a new website called, DVpoo.com. :-)