advice on appropriate steps to recover gear at DVinfo.net

Patrick Jenkins · April 4th, 2006, 02:28 AM

I'm having a bit of a problem and any advice would be great.

I got married this past December - hired two very reputable local camera ops just to tape things for me. They used my gear, I provided stock - they did a great job, I got absolutely everything back except for two SpiderBraces. It's now April and I still haven't gotten them back. I've called and emailed the contact person greater than a dozen times over this and I've not even gotten a single response. Other than this, they were perfect. Also, they were well paid and paid without issue or delay. I found the operators via Craigslist.

Ok, this is my dilemma. I don't have enough outright info to be able to go further than making phone calls (which obviously aren't being returned). However, this is not an end of the road type of problem. If I decide to be a bit less 'diplomatic' though (I don't mean threats, I mean all the goofy scary privacy stuff that's all the news now) I'm concerned that if I use my resources and abilities to get the info I need to find and recover my gear I run into some consequences. Also, they were both female. This shouldn't matter, but it probably well if it gets ugly.

This sucks. I've never had a bad professional experience like this - esp with videography. I just want my Spiderbraces.

I think really the situation is just that it's gone on for a long enough time that they are embarassed. I don't think they are trying to steal anything, I think it's just a pride issue. However, I've gone as far as leaving messages saying to either mail or deliver or I'll pick them up no questiosn asked, I just want them back. Still nothing. Also, in all of my messages I've been polite, cordial, completely non-threatening.

Any advice?

Don Bloom · April 4th, 2006, 04:55 AM

One reason I never lend equipment however...I would have a female go with you (that way they can't say anything about harrassment) and just say something like"it seems there is some misunderstanding-but since you're not returning phone calls or emails I thought I would stop by so we can clear it up. I am missing (fill in the blank) and was hoping you could help me find out where the equipment has gone to without my having to resort to taking further action" BTW-say this with a big disarming smile on you face. (non threatening but still...) When one says "further action" you are not threatening, warning or anything but stating you will take additional action. WHAT KIND OF ACTION? is the usual question. My answer is "whatever is deemed appropriate for the situation-perhaps ours attorneys can handle it between them, perhaps others would need to be called in to mediate the matter-I really don't know at this time-I was hoping to work it out between us" again a big smile. This has worked for me in most cases of anykind of "misunderstanding" for over 25 years and still works today!
The implied act is always more powerful than the actual act

Good Luck

Don

Tom Bolia · April 4th, 2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Jenkins

Ok, this is my dilemma. I don't have enough outright info to be able to go further than making phone calls (which obviously aren't being returned).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

...I would have a female go with you (that way they can't say anything about harrassment) and just say something like"it seems there is some misunderstanding-but since you're not returning phone calls or emails I thought I would stop by so we can clear it up.

From what I understand, Patrick does not have enough information to make a visit, as you have suggested.

Did you sign any kind of contract with these two ladies? How were they paid? Would you have any proof of the equipment you loaned to them? Usually, doing a little search with the online telephone pages can result in an address, but this is always not the case. It's worth a try... then you are free to follow Don's suggestion.

Patrick Jenkins · April 4th, 2006, 09:51 AM

It always happens like this doesn't it... finally figure out the situation and write about it and then you make headway immediately after and then it becomes moot :o)

I got in touch with her this morning - she's actually out of the country doing production for a show (amazing background - is why I really wanted her) so I think everything is resolved. I should be getting the braces back soon!

(I'll keep this thread just in case)

Patrick Jenkins · April 4th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bolia

From what I understand, Patrick does not have enough information to make a visit, as you have suggested.

Did you sign any kind of contract with these two ladies? How were they paid? Would you have any proof of the equipment you loaned to them? Usually, doing a little search with the online telephone pages can result in an address, but this is always not the case. It's worth a try... then you are free to follow Don's suggestion.

I have proof of the equipment and payment was by check. I made sure I had a good trail (just to be safe).

I used to ahem, be a tad more rebellious back in the day (2600 untie! ;-) so I had no problem getting all of the info needed with which I could persue. I'm glad it's going to work out amicably and professionally.

Nick Hiltgen · April 6th, 2006, 02:05 AM

Patrick that's awesome and a little shocking that you're willing to admit to some nefarious (or perhaps just curious) 2600 acts on a real names forum. I try to read the magazine whenever I get that chance but having never advanced much ebyond a script kiddie most of it's lost on me, though I do find that social engineering is amazing. Good luck getting your spiderbraces back.

Patrick Jenkins · May 21st, 2006, 11:58 PM

Well, I'm still dealing with this. I'm sure it's a lost cause and I'm never going to get the 2 Spider Braces back.

I've been in contact with the videographer (Annie - not going to include a last name), she's actually been quite pleasant to talk to, but ultimately she still hasn't returned anything and she's been since relocated a few times so that it's now logistically not worth my time to actually track her down.

There was a contract (written but informal - tho legal), and I have talked to my lawyer - and I already knew this going in - but there's basically zilch I can do. I could get the gear back persuing the whole thing legally, but it'll cost more than just replacing it outright. Quite honestly she's probably relying on that.

It's funny, there's a lot I haven't detailed here, but really the only lesson I can take away from this is that it just reinforces my whole DIY mentality in the first place.

Live and learn (or something)!

Chris Hurd · May 22nd, 2006, 12:14 AM

Well look at it this way... a pair of Spider Braces isn't going to break the bank. Marcos isn't exactly charging an arm and a leg for them. I still have a jib out "on loan" to a guy in Houston. Four years later I'm still trying to tell myself that it's only $600.

Peter Wiley · May 22nd, 2006, 10:21 AM

A simple solution is to call the police and report the items as stolen -- which is what has happened. You've made reasonable attempts to secure the items return and it seems clear the other party won't and that's theft.

I doubt the police will act on your behalf but at least you'd have a record for tax purposes and could claim the missing items as a loss.

Patrick Jenkins · May 22nd, 2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Wiley

A simple solution is to call the police and report the items as stolen -- which is what has happened. You've made reasonable attempts to secure the items return and it seems clear the other party won't and that's theft.

I doubt the police will act on your behalf but at least you'd have a record for tax purposes and could claim the missing items as a loss.

That's a good idea, thanks!

April 4th, 2006, 02:28 AM	#1
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	advice on appropriate steps to recover gear I'm having a bit of a problem and any advice would be great. I got married this past December - hired two very reputable local camera ops just to tape things for me. They used my gear, I provided stock - they did a great job, I got absolutely everything back except for two SpiderBraces. It's now April and I still haven't gotten them back. I've called and emailed the contact person greater than a dozen times over this and I've not even gotten a single response. Other than this, they were perfect. Also, they were well paid and paid without issue or delay. I found the operators via Craigslist. Ok, this is my dilemma. I don't have enough outright info to be able to go further than making phone calls (which obviously aren't being returned). However, this is not an end of the road type of problem. If I decide to be a bit less 'diplomatic' though (I don't mean threats, I mean all the goofy scary privacy stuff that's all the news now) I'm concerned that if I use my resources and abilities to get the info I need to find and recover my gear I run into some consequences. Also, they were both female. This shouldn't matter, but it probably well if it gets ugly. This sucks. I've never had a bad professional experience like this - esp with videography. I just want my Spiderbraces. I think really the situation is just that it's gone on for a long enough time that they are embarassed. I don't think they are trying to steal anything, I think it's just a pride issue. However, I've gone as far as leaving messages saying to either mail or deliver or I'll pick them up no questiosn asked, I just want them back. Still nothing. Also, in all of my messages I've been polite, cordial, completely non-threatening. Any advice? __________________ PAL shooter in NTSC territory

April 4th, 2006, 09:51 AM	#4
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	It always happens like this doesn't it... finally figure out the situation and write about it and then you make headway immediately after and then it becomes moot :o) I got in touch with her this morning - she's actually out of the country doing production for a show (amazing background - is why I really wanted her) so I think everything is resolved. I should be getting the braces back soon! (I'll keep this thread just in case) __________________ PAL shooter in NTSC territory

April 6th, 2006, 02:05 AM	#6
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Patrick that's awesome and a little shocking that you're willing to admit to some nefarious (or perhaps just curious) 2600 acts on a real names forum. I try to read the magazine whenever I get that chance but having never advanced much ebyond a script kiddie most of it's lost on me, though I do find that social engineering is amazing. Good luck getting your spiderbraces back. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

May 22nd, 2006, 12:14 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Well look at it this way... a pair of Spider Braces isn't going to break the bank. Marcos isn't exactly charging an arm and a leg for them. I still have a jib out "on loan" to a guy in Houston. Four years later I'm still trying to tell myself that it's only $600. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 4th, 2006, 04:55 AM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	One reason I never lend equipment however...I would have a female go with you (that way they can't say anything about harrassment) and just say something like"it seems there is some misunderstanding-but since you're not returning phone calls or emails I thought I would stop by so we can clear it up. I am missing (fill in the blank) and was hoping you could help me find out where the equipment has gone to without my having to resort to taking further action" BTW-say this with a big disarming smile on you face. (non threatening but still...) When one says "further action" you are not threatening, warning or anything but stating you will take additional action. WHAT KIND OF ACTION? is the usual question. My answer is "whatever is deemed appropriate for the situation-perhaps ours attorneys can handle it between them, perhaps others would need to be called in to mediate the matter-I really don't know at this time-I was hoping to work it out between us" again a big smile. This has worked for me in most cases of anykind of "misunderstanding" for over 25 years and still works today! The implied act is always more powerful than the actual act Good Luck Don

May 21st, 2006, 11:58 PM	#7
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	Well, I'm still dealing with this. I'm sure it's a lost cause and I'm never going to get the 2 Spider Braces back. I've been in contact with the videographer (Annie - not going to include a last name), she's actually been quite pleasant to talk to, but ultimately she still hasn't returned anything and she's been since relocated a few times so that it's now logistically not worth my time to actually track her down. There was a contract (written but informal - tho legal), and I have talked to my lawyer - and I already knew this going in - but there's basically zilch I can do. I could get the gear back persuing the whole thing legally, but it'll cost more than just replacing it outright. Quite honestly she's probably relying on that. It's funny, there's a lot I haven't detailed here, but really the only lesson I can take away from this is that it just reinforces my whole DIY mentality in the first place. Live and learn (or something)!

May 22nd, 2006, 10:21 AM	#9
Peter Wiley Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lewisburg PA Posts: 752	A simple solution is to call the police and report the items as stolen -- which is what has happened. You've made reasonable attempts to secure the items return and it seems clear the other party won't and that's theft. I doubt the police will act on your behalf but at least you'd have a record for tax purposes and could claim the missing items as a loss.