Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these cases?

[Ryan Elder]

Well I have been hired to direct a two corporate type videos so far, and currently directing a third one, so I was referring to my directing of those. Sorry for not explaining that.

One movie people keep telling me to think of when budgeting is El Mariachi. They say just try to budget for really low like that one did, but I don't know how they pulled that one off, unless maybe American currency just goes a lot further in a budget, when shooting in Mexico...

[Brian Drysdale]

If you want a track record for feature film funders, you need dramas or higher end productions that allow you to demonstrate a visual flair, plus handling actors You also need to have done quite a few of them.

Don't believe the El Mariachi story about the budget, they spent a lot of money putting together the sound track. It was a good marketing device, but the distributor provided the funds to produce a usable film for the market. Also, Robert Rodriguez knew what he was doing, you don't.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay sure. However, in order to get a track record fictional of dramas or movies with visual flair, and actors, all that will add up a lot more than 10K though I am guessing?

[Brian Drysdale]

A hell of a lot more than 10k - $200,000 on all the work to get it ready.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but then is there really a point to making a series of dramas for a lot more than 10K, just to get funding for one? The idea of attracing funders is so I don't have to spend a very large amount of my money. But if I spend say 50K on a track record to attract funding, isn't that still spending a large amount of my own money still?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Like often the case you misunderstand . By track record it’s plain and simple have you directed/produced a successful commercial feature film that made a profit? People in the real world want tangible results. Not I worked as a boom operator or I did some small side gig. No one is giving a job or funding without a track record. Proof positive of tangible results no one serious cares to listen to bs.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. So when people say tell me to get external funding, than that's not really an option without spending my own money on a feature film first then?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay. So when people say tell me to get external funding, than that's not really an option without spending my own money on a feature film first then?

It boggles my mind you haven't even thought that deeply about what it would take to get external funding.

If you had worked as a director/producer on someone else's feature film that made money. That would be another way to show proof. Even winning an award from a legit film festival.

This is common sense stuff. Would you give me 10k to film a feature just on my say so? Just imagine what you as a prudent investor would want before handing over a large sum of money.

You have this one track naive way of looking at things from only your perspective. You want to make a movie, you need money, people should give you money, because you think you can make a movie...

Is any of this sinking in how unrealistic your ideas about external funding would go?

[Ryan Elder]

Well it's not that I was planning on external funding, it's just that people tell me to use that instead of my own, and they say I need to be more open minded to getting external funding and that I need to try harder. So I am trying to take other people's advice who want to help as well.

But I didn't think I could get external funding likely.

As for directing or producing someone else's movie, would someone else allow me to produce or direct their movie without having done a feature myself, yet?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan, you know the answers. One point. How many times do you misunderstand what we all say? Lots and lots. Have you not come to realise your interpretation all skills at dreadful. Not your fault, but after misunderstanding so many times, can you trust yourself when it comes to advice people give. It strikes me that people are actually saying they will not give you money for pie in the sky projects and suggest you just get money elsewhere, as in they are saying you are uninvestable in. They know you in the flesh, fa better than us, and they won't invest. Surely you realise this? You are in the classic catch 22 situation. A good movie to study.

Until you have made a good product that has recouped investment, people see it as very risky. Once you have made money, you make more with the next.

Frankly, we have already worked you out from your posts. I doubt none of us would ever invest in one of your crazy pie in the sky projects. This is why locally you cannot get investors. They see no return, or even guarantee you'd even shoot anything! You talk and think, but that's it!

Let's talk facts. How much have you got in the bank committed to your next project? A grand? 10 grand? An investor wants you to risk your own money too.

Why would they give youninvestmentbat all? Track record is terrible. Success rate is terrible. Communications simply dreadful. Talent? No idea because you don't seem to have any area where you excel? Please tell us we're wrong. Is there some talent we don't know about? Do you have dragons den on Canadian TV? If so how would you do?

[Brian Drysdale]

I know someone who got directing a feature film after writing and directing a single short film (this had a budget a lot larger than your new 10k feature budget, but it was shot on film and people got paid, although not their normal rates ). They wrote the feature's screenplay based on a play, however, he also had a producer on board who had the right connections to get a budget big enough to shoot 35mm on Panavision, with a full feature film crew.

This director had also worked as an art director on a small number of films and I believe the theatre.

The most important part of a producer's job is getting the funding in place, if they're not involved in that they're basically a production manager.

You don't need a track record to be a producer, but you need business, sales, legal skills and be good at handling people, so that you can put together deals in a tough industry.

If looking for external funding, you'll probably need first money, which may prove difficult without your personal seed money. However, you do need to convince them that this is a viable project with a market, which will be the hard part.. .

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, makes sense. I was thinking of hiring a producer to help, if that would be a good idea.

[Brian Drysdale]

You don't have the funds to hire a producer, you can get someone to help, but being a producer is a speculative occupation, so they don't get paid until they get the funding in place.

Don't confuse being a production manager with being a producer, they're different jobs.

Again, all this sounds like a social chat on a forum, rather than you actually doing anything to progress your film in the real world. The "if that would be a good idea" line (repeated again) just gives the impression that you haven't much of a clue and it's more about the forum time, going around in endless circles.

[Josh Bass]

I think that's just how he talks. He ends almost every sentence he writes with "if that's best," "if that's a good idea," "I thought", etc. Don't know if it's just a personal quirk or if he really means each and every one of those qualifiers, i.e. uncertainty in almost everything.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well I just want to do what's best. I could not end the sentence that way, but then it just sounds like I am making decisions for myself rather than trying to seek the best ideas and advice.

And yes I know a producer and a PM are two different jobs, but that is why I said maybe I should hire a producer, because the producer is the one who does the budget, don't they? Or I read the line producer does if that's true.