Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases

David Cleverly · June 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM

Hi again everyone,

Something I have been considering - alongside the usual concert dvd's - is offering dance concert performances as separate video clip downloads, using PayPal as the payment service.

The person interested in the concert goes to a specific webpage, selects the clips they want, pays by paypal and then receives an email containing a receipt/encrypted download link to receive their clip.

Is anyone doing this yet and, if so, how successful is it? Any advice?

If you have chosen NOT to do it, why?

I see this model as being very beneficial to both the families buying the clips and the producers. Especially in this day and age of wanting things immediately, watching more and more content on a computer instead of TV and the desire to send stuff around the globe to family members who "couldn't be there".

The clips could still be burned to DVD by the purchaser if they wanted to play them on a TV.

Thoughts?

Tim Polster · June 13th, 2012, 10:59 PM

I shy away from any situation where people have to remember to go and place an order after an event. Folks are busy and I think the need to order your product decreases each day that passes.

As far as downloading individual dances, it sounds like a lot of encoding, pricing, uploading and web stuff... outside of getting people to actually go to your website. Putting the show on DVD or Blu-ray is a lot easier and proven.

I think online sales in any decent amount are reserved to large online entities that have brand recognition and previous use like Amazon or the Apple store etc...

If you sell 80 DVDs at an event, how many people would actually go to your website and order? Enough for you to stop making DVDs? If not then you have just doubled your work to produce both and just shifted some sales to a new medium.

I am not in favor of the idea for micro sized businesses.

Steve House · June 14th, 2012, 05:14 AM

Not to mention the copyright headaches surrounding the commercial use of the music that accompany the dances. If you go this route you'd be clearly offering copies of the recordings for retail sale to the general public, quite a different thing from the usual event coverage video. Also the need for proper talent releases from the performers would likely become more critical.

Craig Seeman · June 14th, 2012, 07:58 AM

I'd thought I'd interject a bit about copyright that isn't being mentioned here.

In the past I shot a number of dance pieces that were distributed.
In those cases the music was original compositions and original choreography (keep in mind that's also copyrighted). It is possible to get those rights through direct contact. You must get the rights in these situations as well including the permission from the dancers. Even with such original pieces there are potential issues.

In one piece I was involved in on the post side there was a dispute over who owned the choreography rights. Apparently one of the dances was distributing it as their own work.

In another case, I was doing preservation of Dance in America for PBS and asked if their objective was rebroadcast. They said that would be impossible because they didn't have the means to renegotiate permission from the dancers.

We shouldn't always assume that a dance recital involves commercially available music (or choreography) but even so there's still rights issues to be dealt with. Nor can one assume the right of use in one medium extends to another or that such right exists in perpetuity.

Eric Olson · June 14th, 2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cleverly

The person interested in the concert goes to a specific webpage, selects the clips they want, pays by paypal and then receives an email containing a receipt/encrypted download link to receive their clip.

Following the lead of some major publishers, you could make the internet copy a free extra included with the purchase of the DVD. Such a service would allow customers to easily put copies of the video on their tablet computers and cell phones. At the same time, it would allow you to collect certain types of possibly useful information as they register to download their copies. It goes without saying that the collection and use of such personal data should be consistent with government laws as well as comon sense and ethics.

David Cleverly · June 18th, 2012, 09:56 PM

All good ideas and information, thank you.

I like the idea of making the downloads and additional service to the DVD, but, again, it is indeed a lot of work.

Mike Watson · June 26th, 2012, 11:05 PM

To add another $0.02, it seems to me when I was in the dance/concert DVD business, I heard a lot of "oh, I'll just buy it and you can have the copy". Now, you don't hear it often, because it takes a certain amount of technical prowess to copy a DVD, but still, it happens. I had thought about doing digital versions (for download), but I figured a one-click copy would drive my sales down to 1... so I avoided it.

FWIW.

June 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM	#1
David Cleverly Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 220	Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? Hi again everyone, Something I have been considering - alongside the usual concert dvd's - is offering dance concert performances as separate video clip downloads, using PayPal as the payment service. The person interested in the concert goes to a specific webpage, selects the clips they want, pays by paypal and then receives an email containing a receipt/encrypted download link to receive their clip. Is anyone doing this yet and, if so, how successful is it? Any advice? If you have chosen NOT to do it, why? I see this model as being very beneficial to both the families buying the clips and the producers. Especially in this day and age of wanting things immediately, watching more and more content on a computer instead of TV and the desire to send stuff around the globe to family members who "couldn't be there". The clips could still be burned to DVD by the purchaser if they wanted to play them on a TV. Thoughts? Last edited by David Cleverly; June 13th, 2012 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Trying to make my post comprehendable...

June 13th, 2012, 10:59 PM	#2
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? I shy away from any situation where people have to remember to go and place an order after an event. Folks are busy and I think the need to order your product decreases each day that passes. As far as downloading individual dances, it sounds like a lot of encoding, pricing, uploading and web stuff... outside of getting people to actually go to your website. Putting the show on DVD or Blu-ray is a lot easier and proven. I think online sales in any decent amount are reserved to large online entities that have brand recognition and previous use like Amazon or the Apple store etc... If you sell 80 DVDs at an event, how many people would actually go to your website and order? Enough for you to stop making DVDs? If not then you have just doubled your work to produce both and just shifted some sales to a new medium. I am not in favor of the idea for micro sized businesses.

June 14th, 2012, 05:14 AM	#3
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Re: Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? Not to mention the copyright headaches surrounding the commercial use of the music that accompany the dances. If you go this route you'd be clearly offering copies of the recordings for retail sale to the general public, quite a different thing from the usual event coverage video. Also the need for proper talent releases from the performers would likely become more critical. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

June 14th, 2012, 07:58 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? I'd thought I'd interject a bit about copyright that isn't being mentioned here. In the past I shot a number of dance pieces that were distributed. In those cases the music was original compositions and original choreography (keep in mind that's also copyrighted). It is possible to get those rights through direct contact. You must get the rights in these situations as well including the permission from the dancers. Even with such original pieces there are potential issues. In one piece I was involved in on the post side there was a dispute over who owned the choreography rights. Apparently one of the dances was distributing it as their own work. In another case, I was doing preservation of Dance in America for PBS and asked if their objective was rebroadcast. They said that would be impossible because they didn't have the means to renegotiate permission from the dancers. We shouldn't always assume that a dance recital involves commercially available music (or choreography) but even so there's still rights issues to be dealt with. Nor can one assume the right of use in one medium extends to another or that such right exists in perpetuity.

June 18th, 2012, 09:56 PM	#6
David Cleverly Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 220	Re: Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? All good ideas and information, thank you. I like the idea of making the downloads and additional service to the DVD, but, again, it is indeed a lot of work.

June 26th, 2012, 11:05 PM	#7
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	Re: Dance concert songs as separate downloadable purchases - anyone doing it? To add another $0.02, it seems to me when I was in the dance/concert DVD business, I heard a lot of "oh, I'll just buy it and you can have the copy". Now, you don't hear it often, because it takes a certain amount of technical prowess to copy a DVD, but still, it happens. I had thought about doing digital versions (for download), but I figured a one-click copy would drive my sales down to 1... so I avoided it. FWIW.