Trying to establish a day rate...help?

[Steve Crawford]

I met with a producer who contracts out shoots/edits, and I'll be working with him for the first time. He'd like to know my day rate. It'd be for shooting - but using my own equipment.

I'd use a Canon 7D, Canon 60D, own light and audio equipment.

I've just never established a day rate - I've normally just bid on entire projects. I'm thinking the 350-450 range, but I don't want to lowball myself and get locked in at a low rate -- nor scare him away and not work with me in the future.

Thoughts?

Is there a different day rate for editing, should he ask me to do that, as well?

[John Kopec]

What exactly are you going to be hired to do? Camera Op? Are you going to be directing the shoot too? setting up lights/audio?
I work for a local production company, and they pay between $125 - $175 a day for PAs, and around $275 - $400 a day if you are going to be the lead. (Camera Op, director etc..) I'm based in Southern CT, near NYC btw.

[Steve Crawford]

I'd be shooting interviews/b-roll for a corporate video. Primary (only) shooter and providing my own gear. A Canon 7D, a Chimera light kit (2 softboxes), a Zoom H4n, a a Sennheiser lav and Rode Shotgun mic recording two tracks. And then the hardware (glidetrack/monopod/tripod) stuff.

We agreed on $350 for MY day rate, and then equipment on top of that - but haven't established a rate for the equipment. What would you think for all that stuff? It's not a pro rig (matte boxes/redrock/etc), but it's an L lens.

How would you price for equipment? $200? $300?

[Ryan Kincaid]

Well for the feature I did last year (here in NYC), our DP's day rate broke down to about $500 per day. He supplied some lights, the Camera and all of the lenses. Included a bunch of smaller equipement ie sticks, hi-hat, several china balls and assorted fixtures, you know stuff like that, but we still had a medium size grip package too.

[Ryan Kincaid]

Originally Posted by Steve Crawford

How would you price for equipment? $200? $300?

Do an a la carte option where you can plan out the shot the night before and figure what equipement you'll need. Will save him a lot of money in the end run. Yeah that's money out your pocket but at the same time he'll appreciate you thinking of the production budget (and go a long way to forging a long working relationship for other projects). The fact that you have it there gives him the option of wether to use it or not. Plus if you're not going to need a glide cam on a specific day, why lug it around?

[Josh Bass]

Seems like a logical place to begin with gear is setting a rental rate that is equal to 3-5% of the purchase price. I realize as things get older and less in demand, etc., this may not work, and you may eventually not be able to bill as much for each item, but it's a starting point.

[Craig Seeman]

To figure out your day rate you must make enough for you and your business to survive.

FreelanceSwitch Hourly Rate Calculator

NPPA: Cost of Doing Business Calculator

[Dylan Couper]

Craig, that's a great calculator and a good eye opener for most people.
Apparently I should be charging $177.80 per hour though.... which is probably just shy of what I'm (cough) worth. :)

[Liam Hall]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Seems like a logical place to begin with gear is setting a rental rate that is equal to 3-5% of the purchase price. I realize as things get older and less in demand, etc., this may not work, and you may eventually not be able to bill as much for each item, but it's a starting point.

Rental rate is usually between 0.5% and 2%.

You guys should be careful about discussing rates on an online forum - there are laws in many countries that take a dim view of that type of thing...

[David Chilson]

As a general rule people in this industry are a creative and passionate bunch. But as far as being salespeople and/or business people we fall woefully short. Add trying to "break into the business" to the mix coupled with our dread of hearing the word "no" results in a $275 day rate. At that price a $600 wedding is doable.

BEFORE quoting your rate to a production company, find out what they charge, it's not that hard to do. Don't be surprised when you find out you are offering your services for less than half and really now who's fault is that?

And NEVER quote a range, you will always find yourself at the lowest you will take and you have forever locked yourself into that price with that company.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

Rental rate is usually between 0.5% and 2%.

Sorry Liam, Josh is correct. In North America, rental rates are between 2.5-5% on your camera rig. If anyone is only making $50 on their $10,000 rig, they should find another line of work.

You guys should be careful about discussing rates on an online forum - there are laws in many countries that take a dim view of that type of thing...

Please tell us more. I'd like to know what countries and what laws? This is the first I've ever heard anyone say that (at least in reference to the countries we live in).

[Craig Seeman]

Originally Posted by David Chilson

But as far as being salespeople and/or business people we fall woefully short.

Good advice David. Specific to the above quote, always tell them what you can do for them to reach their target. Sell the Return On Investment (ROI). Price should be last in the conversation. Price becomes less important when they already know they're getting good value (ROI). If you "lead with price" you're appealing to their desire to pay less and you've already lost that since you've made the dollar amount more important than the service you provide.

If someone starts by asking your price, you deflect by answering what your value is to them. Price vs value. Sell Value (not price).

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

You guys should be careful about discussing rates on an online forum - there are laws in many countries that take a dim view of that type of thing...

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

I'd like to know what countries and what laws?

This forum is hosted in the U.S.A., so the *only* law that that actually governs
what is posted here is U.S. federal law, regardless of any poster's nationality.

There's nothing wrong or illegal about discussing rental rates on an online forum.

What's wrong (and illegal) is to fix rates with competitors, and that's not what's
happening here. In the United States, price fixing can be prosecuted as a criminal
federal offense under Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, Title 15 of the U.S Code,
enacted on 2 July 1890 (see http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/21...1----000-.html).

Again, a discussion of rental rates does not constitute price fixing. If anybody tries to
use this forum to establish price fixing with another party, I'd ban 'em so fast it would
make your head spin. With that said, and since it's perfectly legal to discuss rental
rates, post away to your heart's content.

[Brian Drysdale]

In the UK there are going daily freelance rates. Not everyone works to them and some people charge more, there are also union minimum rates. This is different to running a cartel , which implies an agreement between competing companies to fix prices.

[Robert Turchick]

I had an interesting situation come up recently. One of my larger clients has been hiring me for shoots and we settled on an hourly rate rather than a day rate since they feed me so much work. These shoots sometimes included going to a local studio to use a greenscreen. They would pay the studio and me for a shoot.
About a month ago, I finished construction on my own studio with a greenscreen and they were among the first to book a shoot. I decided on a rate for the entire package (me and the studio) which in the end saves my client about 25% compared to the other situation and still is plenty to make me happy.
I discussed the rates with the client before the session and they thought it seemed a bit too expensive. I had to explain what they were paying before and the reality of how much money they were saving with the new arrangement. And they are actually getting better quality since my space has acoustically treated.
On top of that, I use all CFL (Kino's) and LED so the talent is more comfy when under the lights. I also include my teleprompter and any other goodies they may need. (I'm not into the Chinese menu approach)
As I'm rattling this stuff off in the discussion, I could see the lightbulb finally click on and they agreed they were getting a smoking deal.

I just found it strange that they couldn't make the connection. My only thought is that they got used to paying me a certain amount for shooting. Since the check is still made out to my company but the amounts are higher, maybe that bothered them. Bottom line is they're cool with it now and have done several shoots at my new space.