using royalti free pics that you havent bought!!!

[Dan Farzad]

I want to put a picture show together and send out as demos. I wanted to use the thumbnails posted on some stock picture websites and use them will this cause me any probs?

also sound track that I use for this pic show, does it have to be right managed or since its only a demo and going to small photography houses and this sort, will not hold me liable.???

[Jonathan Putnam]

First off, it's not exactly clear exactly what your project is. Secondly, the royalty free pics on websites are only royalty-free if you purchase a license. The same goes for music. While it is unlikely that you will run into legal problems with a small distribution, it is unprofessional and a bad habit to start.

Look for photos and music with a Creative Commons license that would permit the use you require. flickr.com has photos, many of which are CC licensed.
http://flickr.com/creativecommons/

Here is a collection of more sites using CC:
http://creativecommons.org/image/

For audio check out some of the sites listed on this page:
http://creativecommons.org/audio/

Using CC-licensed work is perfect for your purposes. Its legal and ethical. Just be sure to use work that is licensed for public domain or non-commercial use.

[Jesse Parsh]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can't be help liable for something that you are not making money on. I've seen many indie film makers use well known commercial songs in trailers, just not in the actual movie itself. But, unless there is a lawyer reading this, everyone is probably just guessing.

[Duane Smith]

Originally Posted by Jesse Parsh

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can't be help liable for something that you are not making money on.

Actually, you can. Here's the official statement from the FBI concerning matters such as these:

"Warning: The unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyrighted work is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000."

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ipr/

[Barry Gribble]

Very true... certainly whenever you hear about a teenager being hauled to court by the RIAA it is for them distributing material that they are making no money on.

[Chris Hurd]

Moved here from the PC EDiting forum. See our extensive five-part Copyright FAQ by Douglas Spotted Eagle for more guidance on this topic, located at:

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/busin...yrightfaq1.php

[Jesse Parsh]

Yeah, it's also illegal to jaywalk, download music, download movies, download software, rip the damn tag off of your mattress. Yet, this is still stuff that thousands upon thousands of people are doing everyday of their lives. Let's be realistic, for every kid you here about being dragged into court over some little stuff, there are thousands more doing the same thing not being bothered. I bet that everyone saying that this is going to get you thrown in jail have risked there own freedom a few times getting that song off of the internet that they like so much. I'm not in here for a moral debate or to debate the law. In my opinion, if this guy used these pictures he would be just fine and nothing will ever come of it. He would win the lottery or get struck by lightning before getting dragged into court over using these pics.

[Duane Smith]

Excuse me, but you're not here to "debate the law"? Uh, you DO realize that "being held liabel" is a statement of LEGALITY, meaning the LAW, dont you? LOL! The original poster asked about being held liable, you then responded with "I'm pretty sure that you can't be held liable", and now that you were corrected, you come in here proclaiming you're not here to "debate the law"?

The LAW is precisely what this discussion is about! :-) And the LAW is that what he proposed is illegal and he can be held liable for it.

------------

And as an aside, it's my opinion (but just that, an OPINION) that just because you can "get away with" something illegal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, and that just because "people do it everyday" doesn't make it right.

2¢

[Paul Tauger]

Originally Posted by Jesse Parsh

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can't be help liable for something that you are not making money on. I've seen many indie film makers use well known commercial songs in trailers, just not in the actual movie itself. But, unless there is a lawyer reading this, everyone is probably just guessing.

Absolutely and completely wrong!

Copyright infringement liability results from making unauthorized copies, unauthorized derivative works and engaging in unauthorized distribution and/or public performance.

There is no, "I didn't make money" defense to copyrignt infringement.

I'm a lawyer and I'm not guessing. ;)

[Jonathan Putnam]

Originally Posted by Jesse Parsh

Yeah, it's also illegal to jaywalk, download music, download movies, download software, rip the damn tag off of your mattress. Yet, this is still stuff that thousands upon thousands of people are doing everyday of their lives. Let's be realistic, for every kid you here about being dragged into court over some little stuff, there are thousands more doing the same thing not being bothered. I bet that everyone saying that this is going to get you thrown in jail have risked there own freedom a few times getting that song off of the internet that they like so much.

Well, since copyright infringement is generally a civil matter (unless you run a high profile pirating ring) your freedom isn't what's at stake if you are found to violate the law--your wallet, however, is. We're not talking about downloading a song to check it out for personal use as he plans to use it to represent his business. As I already pointed out, there is a ton of material available online that is free to use and I can't think of a real compelling argument to ignore this creative work. One other place I forgot to mention for open audio is music section of archive.org. Not everything is cleared for commercial use, but you will be able to find plenty of good stuff. I also want to mention magnatune.com. They offer low rates for film and commercial licensing. Magnatune is a netlabel which has some great tracks available. be sure to check out their flexible licensing program.

Again, I don't think you're likely to get caught but why not take the opportunity to explore openlicensed creative works. If you happen to know any local bands, ask them if you can use some of their music. Maybe it's just me, but when i see other people use work that is not theirs to use, I see it as a creative crutch. YMMV.

[Paul Tauger]

Originally Posted by Dan Farzad

I want to put a picture show together and send out as demos. I wanted to use the thumbnails posted on some stock picture websites and use them will this cause me any probs?

Absent a license, using someone else's protected expression by copying, preparing a derivative work, distributing or publicly performing violates the rights reserved to a copyright owner and results in infringement liability (assuming no applicable defense, e.g. fair use).

also sound track that I use for this pic show, does it have to be right managed or since its only a demo and going to small photography houses and this sort, will not hold me liable.???

See above. Unfortunately, I can't give legal advice to non-clients, so I can't address your specific situation. However, please see my response in this thread to the poster who thinks that, "I didn't make money from it" obviates copyright infringement liability.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Jesse Parsh

Yeah, it's also illegal to jaywalk, download music, download movies, download software, rip the damn tag off of your mattress. Yet, this is still stuff that thousands upon thousands of people are doing everyday of their lives.

Right on brother, tell it like it is! I'm totally with you. Fight the power I say!

Um.. while we are at it, can you tell me when you will be out of the house, cause I could use a new computer, maybe some new CDs, and probably some of your mom's jewelry. Do you have a videocamera too? I know you won't mind if I help myself, since you have no problem with stealing someone elses stuff, right?


PS, please leave all your cash on your desk. Thanks!

[Chris Hurd]

I bet that everyone saying that this is going to get you thrown in jail have risked there own freedom a few times getting that song off of the internet that they like so much... In my opinion, if this guy used these pictures he would be just fine and nothing will ever come of it.

Jesse, it seems that you're missing a big differentiation here. Downloading material from the web is one thing. But uploading that same material -- in other words, redistributing it -- is the real issue. The two are not the same. You can't draw a parallel between downloading a piece of media, and then uploading it under your own name. That process of redistribution is where the real offense lies. Just because you can download it does NOT mean you can upload it somewhere else. That's a critical concept to understand.

[Jesse Parsh]

Obviously you people are having a hard time understanding what I am saying. First of all, I am not telling him to use the pictures, I am saying that chances are he will not get in trouble if he did use the pictures. Besides, stealing solid real life property like computers and jewelry is one thing. "Stealing" a picture is something else. I understand that people make there money from these photos, I fully realize this. But, if this person was not planning on buying the photos anyway than the photographer is not losing anything. That person still has their picture after it is "stolen" so nothing is acutally lost. If this person has the money and was planning on buying the pictures and decided to take them for free anyway, than I can see where that would be more of a problem. But, this person was not looking to spend any money. Maybe they are on a tight budget and it was an option of paying rent for a month or buying these stock photos. But, they still need this demo to get a business going, to in turn make money. You never know someone elses circumstances. Maybe everything is black and white in the dvinfo world, but that is not real life. Remember that not everyone has the same "right and wrong" meter as you. Some of us can see that not every situation is the same. There are grey areas in life.

[Mike Teutsch]

Jesse,

The problem is associating the theft of property with "gray areas."

This is not a personal attack either, but you will find that greys areas become filled with color as one ages and matures. It is just a simple fact of life. We have another thread on using copyrighted material, and I'll link to it. We are trying to find a way to make it easier to get and use copyrighted material. Perhaps you can add to that discussion.

Oh, and I'm an ex-cop from California.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47520

Mike