Turnhere.com - Seriously?!

Pete Cofrancesco · December 29th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Myhre

I do agree with you Pete that it does take some time to complete even a one minute video for them. Uploading the video really doesn't take all that long because the files aren't that large. If I had regular clients no I probably wouldn't be doing work for TurnHere because of the pay but as I said for me the occasional work is nice until I have time to get a business started and do this full time

I forgot its only a 1 min finished so yes that wouldn't too bad to upload

Scott Hayes · December 30th, 2009, 06:19 AM

i just got called from turnhere for two projects, going to shoot them both in the same day.

Oliver Neubert · January 17th, 2010, 08:42 AM

schemes like this wreck prices for the professional people who need to live from it.

but hey - it is a free market.

Shaun Roemich · January 17th, 2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Neubert

but hey - it is a free market.

And every day market pressures are trying to get us to deliver for closer to free. Interesting...

Andrew Smith · January 17th, 2010, 10:08 AM

There will always be people wanting us to do the work for free or cheap. Saying "no" (or giving those clients to other people) is the key to maintaining business profitability.

You can always change your mind when it comes to "survival mode", of course.

Andrew

Oliver Neubert · January 17th, 2010, 04:06 PM

If you work for free, or almost free - it is not survival. Survival would be to go and stack shelves instead.

Just the other day I got a call from one of the major agencies here. They explained in length the project, not terribly difficult but about a good day's work. They wanted something looking cool with good editing and some fancy effects. I asked about the budget. They said, "we don't have one". I said ok, but how much are you willing to spend? (naively thinking "no budget" means "no real budget" They said, ehmm - we just said there is NO budget, so I asked them if they are asking me to do it for free? Their reply was that the client asked them to ask... - .... - .... - after a pause I really had a hard time to remain polite, declining the "job".

Now - the thing is, I do a lot of free or micro budget stuff, but it is always either experimental, art, dance or some kind of "save the dolphin" thing. But this was for an international car manufacturer with global advertising budgets in the hundres of millions....

I understand that people who are not professional and want to get started in the business do things for free or very cheap just to get work and to "get published" but it is a risky path that has to be walked with caution. Even though it sounds good, a very cheap "getting to know me offer" might land you your first job with a client. But honestly, why should they pay you what the job is worth if you were able to do it much cheaper the first time. I have tried this and in my experience: It doesn't work.

As I mentionned, I do a lot of dance stuff, mostly contemporary and modern. The companies are really struggling for money, dancers get paid close to nothing. Still I charge the companies real money. What I charge is about 30% of what I would charge commercial clients but they come up with the money and pay. Even though there are a lot of people out there who would do it for free. I do it better, they know, they want it, I give everything to make it the best I can, and they pay. And more and more companies get referred by people I worked for.

One of my old bosses (when I still had one...) used to say: "Pay Peanuts - Get Monkeys"

or like someone else said:

"if it costs nothing - it's worth nothing"

which is certainly true for many areas, fashion, cars, photography, art....

Andrew Smith · January 17th, 2010, 09:27 PM

There are other sayings such as ...

"It's okay to bend over backwards to please a customer, but that doesn't mean we want to bend over forwards."

Andrew

Larry Davis · January 24th, 2010, 10:21 AM

I have done two shoots last year for TurnHere. Two all year. Here are the links to the videos I produced and are on YellowPages.com
New Image MedSpa:

http://www.yellowpages.com/info-1481...mage-MedSpa%3F

Americus Dental Associates:

http://www.yellowpages.com/info-4294...auto_play=true

I got paid as promised in a timely manner. My question is why only two shoots? You can judge for yourself the quality of my work by viewing the videos. Is it my work or something else on their end? The paperwork is a bit of a hassle and preparing the videos for upload gave me trouble, but I enjoyed the work. On the MedSpa shoot, I did the VO myself. Anyways, there is my two cents. BTW, I am assuming TurnHere will contact me for work in my area, which is Columbus, GA.

Andrew Smith · January 24th, 2010, 11:08 AM

Links not working, unfortunately.

Andrew

Shaun Roemich · January 24th, 2010, 11:45 AM

Links work here.

When rotating your clips for Web delivery, make sure to zoom into them enough so that you can't see the black null space around the clip. Several clips have issues in the dental office piece.

Shaun Roemich · January 24th, 2010, 11:49 AM

Larry: the Med Spa piece is significantly better than the dental office piece. If I could offer one bit of advice, consider giving the movement in your shots a little more forethought. In one clip you reverse the move in the shot and dissolve out. In others the movement seem tentative. If you don't nail the move, go back and repeat it. And if you are going to do kinetic shooting, get the best tripod you can afford. Or more accurately, find a way to afford a better tripod.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to DVi!

Jeff Emery · January 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM

Larry,

Not bad work. Sure, others may have done it differently, but they didn't do it did they? You did!!

Your voice-over in the medspa spot did sound a bit mechanical, like forced annunciation, but they message was easy to get.

Why only two shoots? Who can say? It could be any one of a number of factors. Perhaps there just isn't a demand right now.

I've been contacted via (unsolicited) email by an upper echelon member of TurnHere regarding my postings in this thread. I won't say who it was or what was said, but I can assure you that TurnHere is completely aware of the what's been said here.

Jeff

Shaun Roemich · January 24th, 2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Emery

I've been contacted via (unsolicited) email by an upper echelon member of TurnHere regarding my postings in this thread. I won't say who it was or what was said, but I can assure you that TurnHere is completely aware of the what's been said here.

Glad to hear it. I stand by my words and will live (or die) by them. One of the things I love about DVi is that it is a real names board.

I hope that it was only my inner cynic that read this news as a potential "threat" that "they know who's being naughty and who's being nice". It is in MY best interest to protect my market share. And as a part time educator, it is in my PROFESSIONAL interest to point out to my students that their actions may have consequences, both to themselves in terms of being "blacklisted" and to the industry in general in terms of undercutting.

In all seriousness, if the bottom completely falls out of video production, I'll move on to driving truck, selling tools, flipping burgers, whatever. I LOVE what I do for a living, and as long as there is an opportunity to maintain it as a viable livelihood, I'll speak out where I can. If it becomes no longer viable, I'll get a "real" job and make important films for free for people who need and appreciate it.

Shaun Roemich · January 24th, 2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Emery

Not bad work. Sure, others may have done it differently, but they didn't do it did they? You did!!

And for the record, advice and critique WAS requested. I don't make a habit of offering advice unsolicited. That would be bad form.

Brian Brown · January 25th, 2010, 12:49 AM

Larry, two shoots is likely all of the market penetration TurnHere has at the moment in YOUR market. Armed with your reel, and your growing experience, why not approach businesses yourself and offer to put them up on the Web? YouTube is free, as is Google Local Search, so all the local business has to do is pay your going rate for a Web spot creation.

So why wait around for a non-local entity like TH to generate business in YOUR town? Generate it yourself, and get paid what you are worth. I think you'll find local business and your local Chamber of Commerce are almost untapped (and un-touched) by meaningful video production. I see enormous growth for it in the next several years.

FWIW, I agree with Shaun's critique. I would also say try to avoid using a zoom at all. There's a reason they're almost never used in feature films and used ALL OVER THE PLACE by armchair videographers. A dolly move, a push, gentle tilt, rack focus... cinematic moves. I've read that the zoom "feels" unnatural because the human eye can't zoom... the other camera moves, it can do (by moving one's head or one's body).

HTH,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions

January 24th, 2010, 10:21 AM	#68
Larry Davis Tourist Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Columbus, Georgia Posts: 1	Very few shoots with TurnHere I have done two shoots last year for TurnHere. Two all year. Here are the links to the videos I produced and are on YellowPages.com New Image MedSpa: http://www.yellowpages.com/info-1481...mage-MedSpa%3F Americus Dental Associates: http://www.yellowpages.com/info-4294...auto_play=true I got paid as promised in a timely manner. My question is why only two shoots? You can judge for yourself the quality of my work by viewing the videos. Is it my work or something else on their end? The paperwork is a bit of a hassle and preparing the videos for upload gave me trouble, but I enjoyed the work. On the MedSpa shoot, I did the VO myself. Anyways, there is my two cents. BTW, I am assuming TurnHere will contact me for work in my area, which is Columbus, GA.

January 24th, 2010, 11:45 AM	#70
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Links work here. When rotating your clips for Web delivery, make sure to zoom into them enough so that you can't see the black null space around the clip. Several clips have issues in the dental office piece. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 24th, 2010, 11:49 AM	#71
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Larry: the Med Spa piece is significantly better than the dental office piece. If I could offer one bit of advice, consider giving the movement in your shots a little more forethought. In one clip you reverse the move in the shot and dissolve out. In others the movement seem tentative. If you don't nail the move, go back and repeat it. And if you are going to do kinetic shooting, get the best tripod you can afford. Or more accurately, find a way to afford a better tripod. Thanks for sharing and welcome to DVi! __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

December 30th, 2009, 06:19 AM	#62
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	i just got called from turnhere for two projects, going to shoot them both in the same day.

January 17th, 2010, 08:42 AM	#63
Oliver Neubert Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 101	schemes like this wreck prices for the professional people who need to live from it. but hey - it is a free market.

January 17th, 2010, 10:08 AM	#65
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	There will always be people wanting us to do the work for free or cheap. Saying "no" (or giving those clients to other people) is the key to maintaining business profitability. You can always change your mind when it comes to "survival mode", of course. Andrew

January 17th, 2010, 04:06 PM	#66
Oliver Neubert Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 101	If you work for free, or almost free - it is not survival. Survival would be to go and stack shelves instead. Just the other day I got a call from one of the major agencies here. They explained in length the project, not terribly difficult but about a good day's work. They wanted something looking cool with good editing and some fancy effects. I asked about the budget. They said, "we don't have one". I said ok, but how much are you willing to spend? (naively thinking "no budget" means "no real budget" They said, ehmm - we just said there is NO budget, so I asked them if they are asking me to do it for free? Their reply was that the client asked them to ask... - .... - .... - after a pause I really had a hard time to remain polite, declining the "job". Now - the thing is, I do a lot of free or micro budget stuff, but it is always either experimental, art, dance or some kind of "save the dolphin" thing. But this was for an international car manufacturer with global advertising budgets in the hundres of millions.... I understand that people who are not professional and want to get started in the business do things for free or very cheap just to get work and to "get published" but it is a risky path that has to be walked with caution. Even though it sounds good, a very cheap "getting to know me offer" might land you your first job with a client. But honestly, why should they pay you what the job is worth if you were able to do it much cheaper the first time. I have tried this and in my experience: It doesn't work. As I mentionned, I do a lot of dance stuff, mostly contemporary and modern. The companies are really struggling for money, dancers get paid close to nothing. Still I charge the companies real money. What I charge is about 30% of what I would charge commercial clients but they come up with the money and pay. Even though there are a lot of people out there who would do it for free. I do it better, they know, they want it, I give everything to make it the best I can, and they pay. And more and more companies get referred by people I worked for. One of my old bosses (when I still had one...) used to say: "Pay Peanuts - Get Monkeys" or like someone else said: "if it costs nothing - it's worth nothing" which is certainly true for many areas, fashion, cars, photography, art....

January 17th, 2010, 09:27 PM	#67
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	There are other sayings such as ... "It's okay to bend over backwards to please a customer, but that doesn't mean we want to bend over forwards." Andrew

January 24th, 2010, 11:08 AM	#69
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	Links not working, unfortunately. Andrew

January 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM	#72
Jeff Emery Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 222	Larry, Not bad work. Sure, others may have done it differently, but they didn't do it did they? You did!! Your voice-over in the medspa spot did sound a bit mechanical, like forced annunciation, but they message was easy to get. Why only two shoots? Who can say? It could be any one of a number of factors. Perhaps there just isn't a demand right now. I've been contacted via (unsolicited) email by an upper echelon member of TurnHere regarding my postings in this thread. I won't say who it was or what was said, but I can assure you that TurnHere is completely aware of the what's been said here. Jeff

January 25th, 2010, 12:49 AM	#75
Brian Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Estes Park, CO USA Posts: 426	Larry, two shoots is likely all of the market penetration TurnHere has at the moment in YOUR market. Armed with your reel, and your growing experience, why not approach businesses yourself and offer to put them up on the Web? YouTube is free, as is Google Local Search, so all the local business has to do is pay your going rate for a Web spot creation. So why wait around for a non-local entity like TH to generate business in YOUR town? Generate it yourself, and get paid what you are worth. I think you'll find local business and your local Chamber of Commerce are almost untapped (and un-touched) by meaningful video production. I see enormous growth for it in the next several years. FWIW, I agree with Shaun's critique. I would also say try to avoid using a zoom at all. There's a reason they're almost never used in feature films and used ALL OVER THE PLACE by armchair videographers. A dolly move, a push, gentle tilt, rack focus... cinematic moves. I've read that the zoom "feels" unnatural because the human eye can't zoom... the other camera moves, it can do (by moving one's head or one's body). HTH, Brian Brown BrownCow Productions