HELP! Need info on productions prices please at DVinfo.net

Josh Gordon · May 4th, 2005, 11:49 AM

I run a small productions business with a friend, but up until now, we had just produced our own videos. We recently got a deal with a large upscale company to film an event for them. The event will be a full day/night of filming (probaly 15 hours). There will be 2 cameras (vx2000, dvx100a) and 2 filmers. They want a 4 minute promo type overrun of the whole day, and also a 30 minute minimum dvd of the day.
Since i am new to this, i have no clue what to charge them for the whole project. I assume i do an equipment fee, editing fee, and filming fee? How much do these usually run for? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Chris Hurd · May 4th, 2005, 12:02 PM

Moved (with re-direct) to Taking Care of Business.

Dean Bull · May 5th, 2005, 04:29 AM

I think the best approach would be to look at wedding videographers and see what their rates are.

Myself, I would charge 400 for the day (including camera)

and then 1000 dollars for the promo and DVD with one revision delivered in VHS, MINI-DV, and DVD nicely authored (with maybe 5 copies?)

So between you and your partner your talking 700 dollars each, or 900 if you can charge double for the extra shooter (I.e. 400 a person and camera).

Maybe quote them a flat 2k?

Issues to be aware of

1. Shooting for the Day is a closed end deal (i.e. 15 hours) so its pretty simple as far as money goes. YA! I made 400 for the day (15 hours).

2. Editing and delivering a promo and DVD can be tricky and time consuming especially if you and the client are not clear on the what's and when's. Be very upfront about what you are required to deliver and put limits on your end.

If they try and lowball you, just ask if you can shoot the day and they can have somebody else edit the footage, you might have more fun.

What might help others on the board advise you on rates would be if you could explain the situation and event and the particulars of the promo and DVD you are expected to produce. 2k might be really low.

I will finish by saying that I was just offered 5k to edit a half hour work out show. The client is going to sell the show, and wants it DONE ready for sale. So keep that in mind.

Good luck

Dean

Bob Costa · May 5th, 2005, 07:03 AM

Pricing is an art. What is the number below which you will not do it? What is the number above which they will not hire you (take your best guess)? Put your price somewhere in between. Then hope you are right.

Josh Gordon · May 5th, 2005, 03:16 PM

Thanks for all the advice, i really appreciate it.
As for the event, it's a big breakdancing competition. The even it being put on by a large company, and basically promoting themselves from it. They want the DVD done possibly for resale, theyre really not sure yet. As of now it would just be used for self promotion and marketing, and possibly resale.
The DVD will jsut basically be edited like a sporting event, as if you were watchin git on TV or so. highlights, Finals, Interviews with various dancers, etc.
Thanks again!

Bob Costa · May 5th, 2005, 10:47 PM

Make sure you have releases on all the performers, the location, AND ALL THE MUSIC. Otherwise you could have a pack of trouble.

Craig Seeman · May 6th, 2005, 12:13 PM

Dean,

I find $400 for a 15 hour day VERY LOW (and I thought I was low in my prices). I hope you didn't meant that for TWO cameras total that Josh was posting about. $25/hr per camera would be $375 each. 15 hours is a VERY LOOONG day and later hours become harder. It does depend on the market but your in San Diego and Josh is in Toronto so I'd consider them larger markets. Pricing is a personal thing but I'd think $37.50/hr per camera ($562.50) for the day for each camera and have room to drop it down to $500 for each camera. I'd add provision for overtime over 15 hours at $50/hr per camera. You'll be dead on your feat. 15 hour is ROUGH work.

Imagine how much video you're going to have to screen through for this edit from 2 cameras no less!!!!

I'd do one contract for the shoot and another for the post work. The post work contract is critical because you can really drive yourself down to minimum wage.

Spell WHO is prividing graphics/logos if any. Who is providing VO talent if any. Who is providing music if any is added in post. Make sure use rights are being handled for both the talent and music. If you are doing that than you're taking on lots of extra work that you should be paid for. Also make sure the final delivery date is clearly stated.

Create a "change order" to make sure any changes/additions on the above agreement must be agreed to by both parties and the client will pay for them.

Once who know all this, come up with a ball park estimate on the time it will take you. I will often spell out that the client is getting x number of days or hours including revision.

Then you can figure out what you want to make per hour based on the estimate. This way you can give them a total price and a time estimate without putting yourself into a position of lossing on time/money.

Editing prices are all over the map these days. I see people doing DV stuff ranging from $25/hr or less to $100/hr or more. You have to fit in in the way you think is best but you should take where you place yourself in that scheme and hold to it for your price for the project. Based on my camera estimate it would be OK to assume $300-$400 or each 8 hour work day of editing (which includes input, logging, and encoding/burning time on the other side.

If the clients demands end up being significantly greater than they originally describe you should enforce that change order.

Make sure you give THEM a deadline on the last revision so you have time to make those changes before the deadline. Make it clear to the that the "change order" allows some flexibility but that you both must agree to these, prevents you from getting put in a no win situation such as being given a week's worth of changes the day before the delivery date.

Clients have a right to have a solid idea of cost but you have a right to control the amount of time vs dollars for a given project. The contract should protect both.

Bryan McCullough · May 6th, 2005, 12:46 PM

I'd personally quote this project between $6K - $8K.

Dean Bull · May 6th, 2005, 01:00 PM

Josh!

Now that you mentioned its a bboy comp let me tell you that I have a LONG backround in that stuff.

I bboyed for like 7 years, 4 of which was semi-professionally in comp's and shows and whatnot.

So now that you have a few quotes and some more information let me just say this, if the show is really big (like if its being thrown by CROS-1) then charge in the thousands.

Bboy vid's can make a lot of money (trust me, it can be pretty big business) so don't get exploited.

Can you provide me any more info on the event (name, promoter, organizer, etc)

In response to Craig, I anticipated a response like this and I believe this only goes to show how complex pricing can be, and how many factors need to be considered.

For instance, if you paying off your house doing video work you price differently than if your just getting going, and you price differently if the client is expecting the absolute top'est work of the best professionals versus needing some video work and giving somebody they know a chance.

I would be interested in knowing how this bidding adventure turns out, its always interesting doing this even after doing it many a time.

Thanks.

Glenn Chan · May 6th, 2005, 01:41 PM

Hey Josh,
I live in Toronto too and bboying (break dancing) is one of my "hobbies" (if you can call it a hobby).

Most of the events here I've seen have very little money... the next Break and Enter for example needed to have a fundraiser for the main event's prize money. A friend of mine lost money on his event... :(

There are some events not run by people in the scene and they may have money in them. It really depends on who the organizer is, how big the event is, what the door is, how people the venue holds, sponsorships (i.e. red bull would be a big sponsor), etc.

May 4th, 2005, 11:49 AM	#1
Josh Gordon New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: TORONTO Posts: 11	HELP! Need info on productions prices please I run a small productions business with a friend, but up until now, we had just produced our own videos. We recently got a deal with a large upscale company to film an event for them. The event will be a full day/night of filming (probaly 15 hours). There will be 2 cameras (vx2000, dvx100a) and 2 filmers. They want a 4 minute promo type overrun of the whole day, and also a 30 minute minimum dvd of the day. Since i am new to this, i have no clue what to charge them for the whole project. I assume i do an equipment fee, editing fee, and filming fee? How much do these usually run for? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.

May 4th, 2005, 12:02 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Moved (with re-direct) to Taking Care of Business. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 5th, 2005, 04:29 AM	#3
Dean Bull Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 106	I think the best approach would be to look at wedding videographers and see what their rates are. Myself, I would charge 400 for the day (including camera) and then 1000 dollars for the promo and DVD with one revision delivered in VHS, MINI-DV, and DVD nicely authored (with maybe 5 copies?) So between you and your partner your talking 700 dollars each, or 900 if you can charge double for the extra shooter (I.e. 400 a person and camera). Maybe quote them a flat 2k? Issues to be aware of 1. Shooting for the Day is a closed end deal (i.e. 15 hours) so its pretty simple as far as money goes. YA! I made 400 for the day (15 hours). 2. Editing and delivering a promo and DVD can be tricky and time consuming especially if you and the client are not clear on the what's and when's. Be very upfront about what you are required to deliver and put limits on your end. If they try and lowball you, just ask if you can shoot the day and they can have somebody else edit the footage, you might have more fun. What might help others on the board advise you on rates would be if you could explain the situation and event and the particulars of the promo and DVD you are expected to produce. 2k might be really low. I will finish by saying that I was just offered 5k to edit a half hour work out show. The client is going to sell the show, and wants it DONE ready for sale. So keep that in mind. Good luck Dean

May 5th, 2005, 07:03 AM	#4
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Pricing is an art. What is the number below which you will not do it? What is the number above which they will not hire you (take your best guess)? Put your price somewhere in between. Then hope you are right.

May 5th, 2005, 03:16 PM	#5
Josh Gordon New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: TORONTO Posts: 11	Thanks for all the advice, i really appreciate it. As for the event, it's a big breakdancing competition. The even it being put on by a large company, and basically promoting themselves from it. They want the DVD done possibly for resale, theyre really not sure yet. As of now it would just be used for self promotion and marketing, and possibly resale. The DVD will jsut basically be edited like a sporting event, as if you were watchin git on TV or so. highlights, Finals, Interviews with various dancers, etc. Thanks again!

May 5th, 2005, 10:47 PM	#6
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Make sure you have releases on all the performers, the location, AND ALL THE MUSIC. Otherwise you could have a pack of trouble.

May 6th, 2005, 12:13 PM	#7
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Dean, I find $400 for a 15 hour day VERY LOW (and I thought I was low in my prices). I hope you didn't meant that for TWO cameras total that Josh was posting about. $25/hr per camera would be $375 each. 15 hours is a VERY LOOONG day and later hours become harder. It does depend on the market but your in San Diego and Josh is in Toronto so I'd consider them larger markets. Pricing is a personal thing but I'd think $37.50/hr per camera ($562.50) for the day for each camera and have room to drop it down to $500 for each camera. I'd add provision for overtime over 15 hours at $50/hr per camera. You'll be dead on your feat. 15 hour is ROUGH work. Imagine how much video you're going to have to screen through for this edit from 2 cameras no less!!!! I'd do one contract for the shoot and another for the post work. The post work contract is critical because you can really drive yourself down to minimum wage. Spell WHO is prividing graphics/logos if any. Who is providing VO talent if any. Who is providing music if any is added in post. Make sure use rights are being handled for both the talent and music. If you are doing that than you're taking on lots of extra work that you should be paid for. Also make sure the final delivery date is clearly stated. Create a "change order" to make sure any changes/additions on the above agreement must be agreed to by both parties and the client will pay for them. Once who know all this, come up with a ball park estimate on the time it will take you. I will often spell out that the client is getting x number of days or hours including revision. Then you can figure out what you want to make per hour based on the estimate. This way you can give them a total price and a time estimate without putting yourself into a position of lossing on time/money. Editing prices are all over the map these days. I see people doing DV stuff ranging from $25/hr or less to $100/hr or more. You have to fit in in the way you think is best but you should take where you place yourself in that scheme and hold to it for your price for the project. Based on my camera estimate it would be OK to assume $300-$400 or each 8 hour work day of editing (which includes input, logging, and encoding/burning time on the other side. If the clients demands end up being significantly greater than they originally describe you should enforce that change order. Make sure you give THEM a deadline on the last revision so you have time to make those changes before the deadline. Make it clear to the that the "change order" allows some flexibility but that you both must agree to these, prevents you from getting put in a no win situation such as being given a week's worth of changes the day before the delivery date. Clients have a right to have a solid idea of cost but you have a right to control the amount of time vs dollars for a given project. The contract should protect both.

May 6th, 2005, 12:46 PM	#8
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	I'd personally quote this project between $6K - $8K.

May 6th, 2005, 01:00 PM	#9
Dean Bull Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 106	Josh! Now that you mentioned its a bboy comp let me tell you that I have a LONG backround in that stuff. I bboyed for like 7 years, 4 of which was semi-professionally in comp's and shows and whatnot. So now that you have a few quotes and some more information let me just say this, if the show is really big (like if its being thrown by CROS-1) then charge in the thousands. Bboy vid's can make a lot of money (trust me, it can be pretty big business) so don't get exploited. Can you provide me any more info on the event (name, promoter, organizer, etc) In response to Craig, I anticipated a response like this and I believe this only goes to show how complex pricing can be, and how many factors need to be considered. For instance, if you paying off your house doing video work you price differently than if your just getting going, and you price differently if the client is expecting the absolute top'est work of the best professionals versus needing some video work and giving somebody they know a chance. I would be interested in knowing how this bidding adventure turns out, its always interesting doing this even after doing it many a time. Thanks.

May 6th, 2005, 01:41 PM	#10
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Hey Josh, I live in Toronto too and bboying (break dancing) is one of my "hobbies" (if you can call it a hobby). Most of the events here I've seen have very little money... the next Break and Enter for example needed to have a fundraiser for the main event's prize money. A friend of mine lost money on his event... :( There are some events not run by people in the scene and they may have money in them. It really depends on who the organizer is, how big the event is, what the door is, how people the venue holds, sponsorships (i.e. red bull would be a big sponsor), etc.