another question about how much to charge? at DVinfo.net

Michael Moore · March 17th, 2004, 05:01 PM

I have been offered a gig and i want to know how much i should ask for
The deal is this
It is a amateur "American Idol"
Every Monday night for 3 hours (live video on the bar TV's)
They want it edited down to 1 hour and want it back on a weekly bases.
It should will run for 13 weeks

so here is my question I have a DVC80 and have some good experience with this kinda of shoot, I just want to know what a good going rate would be?

Thanks for the help
Michael Moore

Frank Granovski · March 17th, 2004, 05:32 PM

$500 per episode minimum. Or give them a package deal.

Michael Moore · March 17th, 2004, 06:07 PM

SH*T REALLY !!!!
WOW I totaly didnt relize that i should be chargeing that much. Thanks Frank I see that ou are in Vancouver is that what you charge as a going rate ?

Frank Granovski · March 17th, 2004, 06:43 PM

A Vancouver wedding video, at the very minimum, goes for $500---usually more like $1000 minimum. So 2 hours of setting up, 3 hours of shooting, God knows how many hours of editing, $500 would be absolute minimum for what you're asking.

Dylan Couper · March 17th, 2004, 09:09 PM

Yeah, Frank is right on, and maybe on the cheap end. I'd figure 5 hours a night at at least $50-$100(cdn) an hour. Editing is a tough call. You'll spend hour for hour logging footage, so there is three more. Plus maybe 10 hours of editing? I'd be looking for closer to $1000 per episode if it was me.

Of course, it depends on your experience and background. If this is your first job ever, $500 per episode would be on the higher end.

Michael Moore · March 17th, 2004, 09:23 PM

thanks guys !!!!
It is not my frist time shooting this but i still dont have much experience i think this is my 3rd or 4th paying gig I have done a bunch of free stuff and stuff for my self but there is something diffrent about getting payed. Anyways thanks for this input i just find it hard to tell someone "that will be $5000.00 plus please". I mean maybe it is because that seems like a ton of money to me. o well I dont think they will pay that much but it is a place to start from.

thanks
Michael M

Frank Granovski · March 17th, 2004, 09:27 PM

Do it for $500 an episode, and this will be good experience as well as adding something to your resume.

Jon Cyr · March 18th, 2004, 09:54 PM

Don't feel too bad about taking 500-1000 dollars to do it. To produce a show like that normally, probably costs 100,000 dollars an episode. Now, they may be able to do a job 100 times better... but they are charging 100 times more. :)

John Britt · March 18th, 2004, 10:43 PM

To put it in some perspective (or to just muddy up the water) -- I charge $300 for a :30 sec commercial. This typically involves no more than 2 hours on location -- not necessarily 2 hours of shooting (in fact it's more like 30-50 minutes of actual footage), but 2 hours from when I walk in the door, including setting up shots, mics, etc. Then logging and editing...

Of course, this also includes writing a script, possibly doing a voiceover, adding graphics and onscreen text, etc. (see for yourself at www.karatemedia.com/video -- pimp, pimp; I shoot with the dvc80 as well, btw) And I've been told that I'm vastly undercharging. The cable company's in-house production team charges at least $500 for a :30 sec ad (yes, most clients actually have to pay for production, even form the in-house team).

For what you plan to do, I'd probably charge $500 at the very least, and would probably ask for more, maybe $600-$700 per episode for a package deal. I've been under the impression that $150/hour for shooting and editing is a pretty average price (keep in mind that I'm talking US dollars), so $600 - $700 would seem like more than a fair deal.

Also, are you getting sound from the mixing board, or will you have to handle all the on-site miking and mixing yourself? How much graphics work will you have to supply? Will you have to do any design work (logos, etc)? Consider how much work beyond just shooting and editing you are going to be responsible for. And definately do take your experience into mind -- one of the reasons I charge $300 is that I feel that I am not experienced enough to offer the services that others charge $500+ for.

Frank Granovski · March 19th, 2004, 12:01 AM

Michael is in Vancouver, Canada (.74 US Dollars). And if he wants to get his foot in the door and not get laughed away, he'd better be competitive.

Commercials are a different game altogether, and requires more skill with both shooting and editing---unless it's one of those schlock things that you see at 3:00 a.m.

John Britt · March 19th, 2004, 08:43 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Michael is in Vancouver, Canada (.74 US Dollars). And if he wants to get his foot in the door and not laughed away, he'd better be competitive. -->>>

True, but if he wants to be taken seriously and not be taken advantage of, he should charge what it's worth. You mentioned wedding video production for $500-$1000. Well, those newlyweds are private individuals who just want a video for personal use. It sounds like Mike is being offered work by a bar -- a commercial establishment that is using this whole "Canadian Idol" thing to bring more patrons to the pub and make more money. Therefore, Mike's work would be part of a commercial, money-making venture, veering it much closer to advertising work. If this bar is using Mike's services to help them collect ducets, that should come into play at least a little bit. (as should Mike's experience, etc, etc) I'd probably still use th same numbers I mentioned, but change then to CND, so $600-$700 Canadian Dollars perhaps. If this ploy is successful for the bar, they might bring that in during the first half-hour as it is

<<<-- Commercials are a different game altogether, and requires more skill with both shooting and editing -->>>

I take it you haven't visited my site.

<<<-- unless it's one of those schlock things that you see at 3:00 a.m. -->>>

That's more like it... :)

Ed Hill · March 20th, 2004, 08:11 PM

Michael,

Congratulations on getting a regular paying video series. Cool!
I think the rates these guys are quoting are good.

Here in Atlanta I would probably charge more. But the rates often depend on where you are.

As far as negotiating, I sometimes start at the high end of a reasonable range and then encourage negotiation. As an aircraft salesman once told me, "You can negotiate down, but you can't go up on price..."

When you get to price, just explain the valuable technical services you are giving. Having a short written list of the shooting and editing hours and your quite reasonable price can help.
Show them the paper and say "...and its only about $ 700 per week".

Then shut up and wait for them to agree. The next one to talk loses.

I am amazed how often the video client just says yes.

Of course if they say "no that's too much" you can still say, "What would be closer to your budget?"

Then just go back and forth with counter offers til they agree.

Good Luck.

Ed Hill

March 17th, 2004, 05:01 PM	#1
Michael Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 94	another question about how much to charge? I have been offered a gig and i want to know how much i should ask for The deal is this It is a amateur "American Idol" Every Monday night for 3 hours (live video on the bar TV's) They want it edited down to 1 hour and want it back on a weekly bases. It should will run for 13 weeks so here is my question I have a DVC80 and have some good experience with this kinda of shoot, I just want to know what a good going rate would be? Thanks for the help Michael Moore

March 17th, 2004, 09:09 PM	#5
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Yeah, Frank is right on, and maybe on the cheap end. I'd figure 5 hours a night at at least $50-$100(cdn) an hour. Editing is a tough call. You'll spend hour for hour logging footage, so there is three more. Plus maybe 10 hours of editing? I'd be looking for closer to $1000 per episode if it was me. Of course, it depends on your experience and background. If this is your first job ever, $500 per episode would be on the higher end. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 20th, 2004, 08:11 PM	#12
Ed Hill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 104	Michael, Congratulations on getting a regular paying video series. Cool! I think the rates these guys are quoting are good. Here in Atlanta I would probably charge more. But the rates often depend on where you are. As far as negotiating, I sometimes start at the high end of a reasonable range and then encourage negotiation. As an aircraft salesman once told me, "You can negotiate down, but you can't go up on price..." When you get to price, just explain the valuable technical services you are giving. Having a short written list of the shooting and editing hours and your quite reasonable price can help. Show them the paper and say "...and its only about $ 700 per week". Then shut up and wait for them to agree. The next one to talk loses. I am amazed how often the video client just says yes. Of course if they say "no that's too much" you can still say, "What would be closer to your budget?" Then just go back and forth with counter offers til they agree. Good Luck. Ed Hill __________________ Ed Hill HighlyDef Productions, Atlanta, GA prblog.edhillpr.com Video and Online Advertising ed@highlydef.com

March 17th, 2004, 05:32 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	$500 per episode minimum. Or give them a package deal.

March 17th, 2004, 06:07 PM	#3
Michael Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 94	SH*T REALLY !!!! WOW I totaly didnt relize that i should be chargeing that much. Thanks Frank I see that ou are in Vancouver is that what you charge as a going rate ?

March 17th, 2004, 06:43 PM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	A Vancouver wedding video, at the very minimum, goes for $500---usually more like $1000 minimum. So 2 hours of setting up, 3 hours of shooting, God knows how many hours of editing, $500 would be absolute minimum for what you're asking.

March 17th, 2004, 09:23 PM	#6
Michael Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 94	thanks guys !!!! It is not my frist time shooting this but i still dont have much experience i think this is my 3rd or 4th paying gig I have done a bunch of free stuff and stuff for my self but there is something diffrent about getting payed. Anyways thanks for this input i just find it hard to tell someone "that will be $5000.00 plus please". I mean maybe it is because that seems like a ton of money to me. o well I dont think they will pay that much but it is a place to start from. thanks Michael M

March 17th, 2004, 09:27 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Do it for $500 an episode, and this will be good experience as well as adding something to your resume.

March 18th, 2004, 09:54 PM	#8
Jon Cyr New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Yakima Washington Posts: 9	Don't feel too bad about taking 500-1000 dollars to do it. To produce a show like that normally, probably costs 100,000 dollars an episode. Now, they may be able to do a job 100 times better... but they are charging 100 times more. :)

March 18th, 2004, 10:43 PM	#9
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	To put it in some perspective (or to just muddy up the water) -- I charge $300 for a :30 sec commercial. This typically involves no more than 2 hours on location -- not necessarily 2 hours of shooting (in fact it's more like 30-50 minutes of actual footage), but 2 hours from when I walk in the door, including setting up shots, mics, etc. Then logging and editing... Of course, this also includes writing a script, possibly doing a voiceover, adding graphics and onscreen text, etc. (see for yourself at www.karatemedia.com/video -- pimp, pimp; I shoot with the dvc80 as well, btw) And I've been told that I'm vastly undercharging. The cable company's in-house production team charges at least $500 for a :30 sec ad (yes, most clients actually have to pay for production, even form the in-house team). For what you plan to do, I'd probably charge $500 at the very least, and would probably ask for more, maybe $600-$700 per episode for a package deal. I've been under the impression that $150/hour for shooting and editing is a pretty average price (keep in mind that I'm talking US dollars), so $600 - $700 would seem like more than a fair deal. Also, are you getting sound from the mixing board, or will you have to handle all the on-site miking and mixing yourself? How much graphics work will you have to supply? Will you have to do any design work (logos, etc)? Consider how much work beyond just shooting and editing you are going to be responsible for. And definately do take your experience into mind -- one of the reasons I charge $300 is that I feel that I am not experienced enough to offer the services that others charge $500+ for.

March 19th, 2004, 12:01 AM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Michael is in Vancouver, Canada (.74 US Dollars). And if he wants to get his foot in the door and not get laughed away, he'd better be competitive. Commercials are a different game altogether, and requires more skill with both shooting and editing---unless it's one of those schlock things that you see at 3:00 a.m.

March 19th, 2004, 08:43 AM	#11
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Michael is in Vancouver, Canada (.74 US Dollars). And if he wants to get his foot in the door and not laughed away, he'd better be competitive. -->>> True, but if he wants to be taken seriously and not be taken advantage of, he should charge what it's worth. You mentioned wedding video production for $500-$1000. Well, those newlyweds are private individuals who just want a video for personal use. It sounds like Mike is being offered work by a bar -- a commercial establishment that is using this whole "Canadian Idol" thing to bring more patrons to the pub and make more money. Therefore, Mike's work would be part of a commercial, money-making venture, veering it much closer to advertising work. If this bar is using Mike's services to help them collect ducets, that should come into play at least a little bit. (as should Mike's experience, etc, etc) I'd probably still use th same numbers I mentioned, but change then to CND, so $600-$700 Canadian Dollars perhaps. If this ploy is successful for the bar, they might bring that in during the first half-hour as it is <<<-- Commercials are a different game altogether, and requires more skill with both shooting and editing -->>> I take it you haven't visited my site. <<<-- unless it's one of those schlock things that you see at 3:00 a.m. -->>> That's more like it... :)