|
|||||||||
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
March 5th, 2009, 11:09 AM | #16 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 126
|
Quote:
Secondly, you didn't state in your original story about the fact that you had a detailed contract and these hours weren't originally included. To that I say, that is the bad of the contractor not figuring that into the cost of his bid. He should eat it for not having forethought. Having said that, it is up to the contractor, not the producer, to set the price of the bid. If you say "I'm not going to pay this amount" (BEFORE the job of course), then it is up the contractor to either decide to alter his bid or not take the job. Both parties need to clearly define their roles and expectations in a deal before work starts or money changers hands. There is a saying that goes "with the right client, a good contract is never needed, with the wrong one its never enough" |
|
March 5th, 2009, 12:54 PM | #17 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
|
Quote:
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/ |
|
March 5th, 2009, 02:37 PM | #18 | ||
Regular Crew
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
No, seriously, I think that you might as well be as transparent as possible with business partners. Tell them that you're not going to pay for render time, and then you won't have to bother suing. If that's not acceptable for THEM, work out a solution. If you can't, find another editor. Quote:
|
||
March 6th, 2009, 01:29 AM | #19 |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
|
Still waiting for that sense of humor transplant, huh?
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
March 6th, 2009, 01:35 AM | #20 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
|
Quote:
I think almost all of us (producers, editors, cameramen alike) have been burned by a client uttering those three horrible works "can you also..." The last time it happened to me it was "can you also... reproduce this entire 8 hour shoot, with a second variation of our product, in a single hour, and we don't pay you any more money?" Ok ok, that's my interpretation, but is basically what they were asking. Needless to say, it didn't happen. Editors probably have it the worst. It's critical to tell the client asap how many extra hours a simple change will add, and what it will cost them. Otherwise, they'll just assume it's covered.
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
|
March 6th, 2009, 05:46 AM | #21 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
|
In my case, they just looked at the bottom line of my line-item specific quote and said to themselves, "Oh, that's how much our video costs..." and ignored all the specific prior discussion of "this quote assumes that industry standard protocols and workflows will be followed... blah blah blah"... ARGH! And there are TOO many people who have assumed "ownership" of this darned thing so I'm just putting in time to get through with it. Oh, and by the way, the client calls my house at 10 pm occasionally...
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/ |
March 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM | #22 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 700
|
Analogy: a client hires you to tape a speech and just wants a straight locked down wide shot. After the 6-hour shoot (say, the guy is Castro or Clinton or something), they only pay you for the combined 45 minutes it took you to set up, tear down, and change tapes because you were reading or emailing while the camera did its thing unassisted.
I cannot imagine a happy camera owner in that scenario. Any time my computer gets tied up and cannot be used for other tasks, I'd better charge or I am cheating myself. Of course, how much I charge is between me and the client. Rush jobs get full rate, overnight jobs with good clients usually get substantially reduced rates, but whatever it is, we agree to it beforehand. If I find mid-project that I didn't mention a charged item, I'll make sure to let them know before I slap it on an invoice and we'll talk it over like adults instead of playing the piddly passive-aggressive BS games that are so en vogue in our rapidly declining Western culture. speaking of which, what's that 2 cents worth now with inflation? $4.73? |
March 6th, 2009, 07:15 PM | #23 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
|
Quote:
I'm not saying render time is not worth anything... it definitely has value... but it isn't full editing rate. To me render time is worth the same as a camera rental, because that's basically what you are doing, renting time on equipment, without any real human time involved. Yes, the editor gets paid full rate for setting up the render, but after that... And if the editor only has one computer and it kills his productivity during renders... that's not my problem. He can render it at night or get another workstation.
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
|
March 6th, 2009, 07:20 PM | #24 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
|
Quote:
I think I got that from Paul Tauger actually...
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
|
March 7th, 2009, 08:16 AM | #25 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Willmar, MN
Posts: 1,400
|
Quote:
Your Castro speech analogy is flawed. The main reason you'd charge full rate for the duration of the speech is because of "lost opportunity". While you're recording the speech you have no opportunity to do other work. I charge for travel time. Sure I'm not doing anything other than watching the road, but the time I spend on the road is time I don't get to work. However I can do lots of things in my office while a video is rendering. |
|
March 7th, 2009, 11:25 AM | #26 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 126
|
Unfortunately, yes. Our healthcare system down here in the States does not cover free humor transplants. :)
But I got my feathers ruffled a little about the "wuss" comment because I had a good friend just go through the lawsuit thing because a producer didn't want to pay her for the work he asked her to do. The point I was trying to make is, contracts are essential to both parties so neither side gets taken advantage of. But if one party doesn't want to hold up to their side, a lawsuit is pretty much all you can do other than eating it (which for a small operation in this economy can mean the difference between staying open or not). And back to the original point: It is up to the contractor to factor in what their "cost" is in render time (lost productivity, wear/tear, power, time babysitting, etc), and if/how they want to pass that on to the client. But then both parties need to be "on board" with it beforehand... |
March 7th, 2009, 11:42 AM | #27 | ||
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
|
Quote:
Quote:
The one lesson in this business that has cost me the most money, lost me the most time, and took me the longest to learn is... always have a contract... even at least a paper or email that spells out point by point: *what tasks the person will perform *when they will perform them by *how much each will cost. Doing this is critical if you are hiring someone.
__________________
Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
||
March 7th, 2009, 05:42 PM | #28 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 126
|
Amen. That is the sad truth 99% of the time!
|
| ||||||
|
|