How does the News get away with using music?

[Chris Davis]

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

Interesting. I wonder if the rules have changed, at least for radio, in the last 30 years. Everyone I worked with in radio back then would use tracks from commercially produced records for music beds for commercials without giving it a second thought.

I've worked in radio on and off since 1985. It's always been a violation of ASCAP/BMI rules to do that. They did that because they were ignorant and/or lazy. Either that or the client really wanted "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" on their commercial so instead of making your client mad (and possibly losing the revenue) you just used it.

Kind of like wedding video now-a-days: we all know it's wrong but most do it anyway.

[John Brinks]

This brings up another interesting question for me... I have noticed that most networks require that you submit a "Que sheet" with programming...

and i was thinking that perhaps this is a technical loophole in the ascap bmi system... if all the music for your "program" is recorded on a separate device, and played simultaneously with the main track of the program... this would technically be within the boundary's of the licensing since it is not "synched" it is simply being performed?

comments anyone?

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by John Brinks

This brings up another interesting question for me... I have noticed that most networks require that you submit a "Que sheet" with programming...

and i was thinking that perhaps this is a technical loophole in the ascap bmi system... if all the music for your "program" is recorded on a separate device, and played simultaneously with the main track of the program... this would technically be within the boundary's of the licensing since it is not "synched" it is simply being performed?

comments anyone?

\

Doesn't the term "synched" ie "synchronized" mean on its face that the music is played simultaneously with the images, with specifc music juxtaposed to specific images? Doesn't matter what device each is on - it's just as much syncing if you use a CD player for the sound and an old Carosel slide projector for the images. You're uttering a distinction that's searching for a difference. Forget finding loopholes, there aren't any.

[John Brinks]

But i think this technique of using a que sheet with a separate device for music is actually a legitimate loophole... since the music is not TECHNICALLY synched with the video... it is just being played at the same time... like they do on the news!

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by John Brinks

But i think this technique of using a que sheet with a separate device for music is actually a legitimate loophole... since the music is not TECHNICALLY synched with the video... it is just being played at the same time... like they do on the news!

You're misunderstanding the use of the word "cue" in the "cue sheet." You're not submitting a list that tells someone where to play what music. A "cue" is a single clip of music, either an entire composition or a snippet of one. The "cue sheet" lists each music cue in the order of its appearance with its title, duration, the composer(s) name(s) and the rights society (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) that collects their portion of the royalties, the publisher's name and the rights society that collects their royalties. The program producers or the broadcaster's traffic department files this with the rights societies and they in turn use it to determine how much to pay out of their blanket license funds to the various copyright owners. It has nothing to do with instructing someone what music is supposed to played during the program; rather, it is a list of the music that's already in the program. There is no separate device for music that is being que'ed to picture.

Here's an example of one from the ASCAP site: http://www.ascap.com/musicbiz/cue_sh...leCueSheet.pdf and also a FAQ http://www.ascap.com/playback/2005/w...cuesheets.aspx

[Richard Alvarez]

Yes, the music IS 'technically' synched to the video. They are played together.

Steve's comment is dead on. I too, worked in both professional radio and television for years.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by John Brinks

Hello everyone...

I have read through the forums regarding copyright issues when it comes to music, and how there is essentially no "fair use" anymore; and how the costs are astronomical...

which leads me to the question... how do cable news shows with limited budgets, get away with using extremely recognizable songs in every show? The Keith Olberman show comes to mind, at the end of every segment a DIFFERENT famous song is played. It seems unlikely that they actually have the money to license 3-8 famous songs PER SHOW... which begs the question, how do they do it?

Any insight is greatly appreciated...

Crap... pardon my grammar, with regards to the title!!!

What makes you assume they have a small budget? Keith Olberman show is on a major TV network MSNBC. Let me break that down for you, that's partnership of Microsoft Soft and General Electric's NBC. I think both have deeper pockets then you can imagine. In contrast I suggest you try to find a copyrighted song on your local news or public access station.