More dvx100 SCAMS on ebay? at DVinfo.net

Matt Gettemeier · July 20th, 2003, 11:48 PM

What's up with ebay? Don't you think that EVENTUALLY they should have SOME responsibility to police themselves?

If I own a shopping mall and I collect fees from crooks who want to scam unsuspecting shoppers... can I really just claim a "buyer beware" policy and take no responsibility?

Or am I wrong and the SAME EXACT PHOTO of a stack of dvx100 boxes on the same flight of stairs... is legit? Every month there is a new run of ebay ads with the same picture showing the same dvx100 boxes on the same stairs... ok it's the SAME picture. Funny thing is the seller is different every month? Seem scammy?

Sorry to vent...

Brian Gauthier · July 21st, 2003, 12:49 AM

its true... my friend i was almost doopt... some guy tried to sell me an xl1s for 1400.00 so i emailed ebay fraud support and they reported back to me in the nick of time as i was about to send him a payment for it... it turns out that the guy hacked into someones account and rerouted all emails to his and was doing fraud business from Romania...

now i deffinately know not to ever do any type of eBaying Internationally... its just too dam risky... if it was in the usa i could get the fbi involved but not across international borders...

EBAY BUYER BE WARNED.... DONT BE FOOLED....

Sincerly
Brian G.

Christopher Go · July 21st, 2003, 01:16 AM

That picture with the AG-DVX100 sitting on boxes is used a lot, that's true. However, that in itself doesn't necessarily mean its a scam. I agree with you that its shady though because what you're really seeing is a common practice not just on eBay but across the web: people lifting images and text that don't belong to them for their purposes.

I've seen this a lot and its happened to me too. People who for whatever reason - maybe they don't have a digital camera, are too lazy, or just plain unscrupulous - simply copy other people's pictures and even descriptions for their auctions. It may be a legitimate auction except they don't realize how shady it makes them look when customers find out. I was surprised to see a picture of mine along with MY words used in an auction for the same item.

Anyway, I'm saying this because I believe the original photo belongs to studio-exchange, the eBayer who IS an authorized reseller according to Panasonic's own website (if you go to their site and click on 'how to buy' enter zipcode 91502 to find a dealer and Studio Exchange will come up). I've purchased from then once before and it was a good transaction although I didn't go through eBay. Maybe Studio-Exchange should change their picture - I certainly hope they didn't lift that picture from someone else!

I think you've pointed out an excellent way to point out potentially shady dealers though. If they can't even get their own photos, it makes me wonder about the rest of their operation....

Peter Jefferson · July 21st, 2003, 04:51 AM

one thing i do with any purchases over 100 bux is contact the seller via email..

if they contact me and we create a rapport, or tehy have a legit business website (which most do) i will do business with them from tehre... most of teh time, theyre prices arent all that different from teh ebay ones, and you end up with peace of mind (as well as a discount as THEY dont have to pay much if they dont sell the item thru ebay... )

I found a good DVX deal with mic and extended worldwide warranty for $4500AUD less than what i would have paid...
(i cant say where i got it from as i did that once and had my post deleted.)

but good deals CAN be found if you are patient and do your research...

Matt Gettemeier · July 21st, 2003, 04:35 PM

Where I have the problem is in the "how many do you want?" which implies that the stack of 'em is in fact... a fact... maybe not that SAME picture, but you're telling me that somebody is actually selling brand-new dvx100's for $1800-$1900?

Please tell me that this IS in fact legitimate... 'cause in that case my answer to "how many do you want?" is "two please"...

And by the way... I looked into the Studio Exchange deal and they have a category called "Hot Deals"... their "Hot Deal" on a dvx100 is $3295... a far cry from the ebay ads which feature "new usa dvx100's" for $1800.

I hate to quote the old "too good to be true" thing so I won't even though I kinda' did.

Matt Gettemeier · July 21st, 2003, 05:02 PM

Oh yeah, and SO FAR every time I see these ebay deals with the dvx100's for SUB-$2K all the feedback says NOTHING about ANY dvx100's... Don't you think that if somebody "gave" you a dvx100 for $1900 that you'd be pleased enough to leave a positive comment?

Nope, every single ebay seller that has come up with the now famous "stairway to dv heaven" has NO feedback pertaining to the cameras... they've all been buyers of unrelated items to build a feedback profile... and the location of this month's contestant is "*(&*("... sounds like a fine "Mayberry" type of town.

The guy last month had about the same amount of feedback but it was all in French... nothing against that except that was the first time I clicked on a feedback report and everything was IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE!

Whatever...

Hey when you guys say be patient and you'll find a good price why don't you spare us the sage wisdom and just tell us where you got yours and how much you paid?

Sorry for the edgy attitude today... that ebay thing really has me cheezed. So far that auction has been running for 2 days and there are still 5 AVAILABLE... SO DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND RUN... DON'T WALK!... to get yourself pre-approved as a buyer... ha! Cheez-n-effin'rice.

Brian Gauthier · July 21st, 2003, 09:45 PM

Amen brother !!!

Peter Jefferson · July 22nd, 2003, 04:54 AM

i wish it was 2grand US, i woulda goten 3 or 3even 4 and resold them here to pay for my own...

i actually did post a link once to the site wher eigot it from and no it wasnt for $1800, i pad around $3200 US and the AUD was strong so i ended up payin a good price...

As for ebay, for ANYTHING over at least $500US, i still say be patient (for the vendor to get back to you ;) )
and in all honesty, id forget the auctions... theyre not worth the hassle when they fall thru... especially with items like this...

Ebay is a good contact site, u may as well use it

Nick Medrano · July 24th, 2003, 06:32 PM

Hi guys,
I had originally posted a message about finding good deals on Ebay and who to get it from, but had my post deleted (which I understand). Just so you know, I have bought a brand new (non-grey market) dvx100 with all the accessories for only $2800 total. The person who is selling them is legit and sells over 5-10 a day. The XL1 prices are even lower.....

Just wanted to say that not everything on Ebay is a scam.

Robbie Smolinsky · July 31st, 2003, 10:53 AM

Ebay is a tricky place, and the fraud is really getting out of control. There have been days that I was looking at PD150s, Xl1s and DVX100s where there appeared to be more fradulent listings than legit ones. Most of the scammers are actually quite lazy, usually they will only list specifications, and nothing personal about the history of the camera, or ask you to email them for a "special buy it now price" and things of that sort. And frequently they do borrow pictures from other auctions, but there are some legit sellers who also do this because of lack of access to a camera or laziness.

Brian, I find it funny that you mention that guy from Romania (there is probably more than one), as he stole some money from me way back in the day when I first started out on Ebay and was trying to buy a 3ccd camera. A few weeks ago, a U.S. Marshall showed up on my doorstep to serve me some papers (requesting my testimony for his criminal trial), and it appears as though this jerk has been apprehended and stands to serve like 20+ years in jail, so at least something is being done about it. However, I think in Romania, 20+ years in jail equates to really just having your hands cut off and being raped in the woods someplace, at least that seems like a fitting punishment to me since stealing from honest people (and making a living from it) is one of the lowest forms of crime in my opinion. So apparently, while the FBI does not have International jurisdiction, the US Marshall's office does have an International Crime section.

The bottom line is if there is any doubt, there is NO doubt. What I mean is if anything about a transaction seems fishy, or the persons feedback doesn't really make sense for what is being sold (i.e. the person has 3 XL1s' up for sale and all the feedbacxk they have is for buying beauty products), then you should absolutely avoid them. Not to mention that there are no legit sellers (that I know of) who would willingly put up a camera that goes for $3000+ normally at auction with a Buy It Now of $1500.

Robbie

Christopher Go · August 3rd, 2003, 07:31 AM

I completely agree with all that's been said. I did not at any point say that those $2000 deals were legit, only that Studio-Exchange is a legit dealer as Matt discovered with their price, and that I think Studio-Exchange was the original seller to have the photo with all the DVX100s on the stairs. Its unfortunate that those scam artists stole the picture from Studio-Exchange since by association it also makes Studio-Exchange look shady, which they are not.

This is where I got mine: Zotz Digital. But I have purchased a Sennheiser ME66 microphone, Sound Devices preamp, Tascam DAT, and other expensive items successfully from eBay.

In my opinion, the rise in fraudulent sales on eBay reflects the increased number of business on eBay and on the web in general. When credit cards were first used on the Internet, thieves soon learned to follow and many businesses had to secure websites, databases, etc in response to consumer fears.

Many people are still ripped off but people ARE ordering on the 'net successfully these days, correct? In the same vein of thought, many transactions are completed without problem on eBay with the usual given proportion of fraudulant/problematic sales. This is a fact of business wherever you go whether on the 'net or in real life. There will always be people looking to find new ways to steal your money.

But as shown by this thread, we obviously know how to avoid bad sellers, even on eBay: check feedback, establish email communication first, etc. I don't see what the problem is here? Saying that all of eBay is a scam is like saying the Internet is a scam. True to a degree, but also true is that eBay's great for buying and selling, which is evidenced by the thousands of good feedback you also see in addition to the bad. If you don't trust it, then don't and that's that.

As far as the AG-DVX100, there are no cheap alternatives. Perhaps the problem isn't with eBay, but with people unwilling to drop the cash on the items they want. Everyone want's good deals but in the end we all know what we have to do if we want better service, reliablity, etc: quit griping, avoid the too-good-to-be-true deals, and drop the dough. If you can't afford it, don't risk it.

Robbie Smolinsky · August 3rd, 2003, 08:12 PM

I will have to second Christopher on this. Sure fraud is and always will be a problem, but at the same time, what lures people into these sorts of bad deals is the desire to save money. Sometimes its just better to bite the bullet and go with a well known retailer.

And Christopher, I hope you weren't addressing to me when you say "I don't see what the problem is here? Saying that all of eBay is a scam is like saying the Internet is a scam" because in my post, I did not mean to come off like that at all. And I apologize if I expressed that all of Ebay and the Internet is some evil machine, that was not the intention. Personally, in the last month or so I have had over $14K in sales on Ebay and have purchased over 5 grand worth of stuff as well. Ebay is a great place to do business but I think what is bothering people most is not even the fraudulent sales necessarily, it's more Ebay's indifference towards the problem.

You're right when you say that *WE* all know how to avoid the problem sellers, but there are a lot of people out there on Ebay who don't. Its not fair to be so selfish as to say...well, we all know how to figure out the good from the bad, so its not a problem.... I feel bad for the high school kid who works his or her tail off to scrap together enough cash to buy a camera and some extras with a dream of making a great movie, and when he thinks he's just getting a great deal on Ebay, he will be robbed blind. Think of it like this: If there were a road with a sharp curve and cars crashed on it everyday, is it not a problem because you have never had an accident there?

Now to be fair, 99.9% of the transactions on Ebay are legit transactions, and it is a very safe place to do business with a number of ways to find credentials and history of sellers; however, there is a disproportionate amount of fradulent sales in electronics, and camcorders specifically, because they are high value auctions, but not so expensive that people may try to do a complete backround check first.

Its just hard for me because I see the SAME EXACT auctions being offered continually (that are so obviously fradulent). And by "same exact" I mean literally, the font, the print, the description and the pictures are all the same. It is really not all that hard to block and IP address, or even a a larger network of them from your servers, so maybe if Ebay just went after these repeat offenders, that would solve the majority of the problem in one quick move. Or they could establish a system that sends a red flag to them when a seller has been selling low priced novelty items from Colorado for 3 years, and then suddenly posts a number of high priced electronics and changes their location information to Spain, Italy or any other location.

But this post is getting to darn long so here is my conclusion:

Yes, Ebay is good, almost all of the sales are legit, and its all buyer beware. But, especially after the merge of Paypal and Ebay, it is one of the quickest growing and most profitable businesses around (dealing specifically in offering a direct service to people), and they seem to lack consideration for the safety of everyone who uses their service. We are smart enough (unfortunately I had to learn the hard way) to know a good deal from a bad one, but there are a lot of buyers out there who are neive, and I think the argument here is that Ebay should be doing more to look out for those people.

Christopher Go · August 4th, 2003, 10:25 PM

Hey Robbie, I completely understand what you're saying. When you put it that way I agree as well that eBay seems indifferent to people's problems.

I wasn't addressing anyone specific, I myself was reflecting another side of the rant of the eBay debate where on one hand there is the suspicion and on the other the appreciation for this new and strange form of doing business. Too often I've been seeing these kind of "what's up with eBay" concerns and just simply wanted to express another point of view.

I fully acknowledge that eBay can be problematic (as a dangerous curve in the road can be as you so wonderfully described) and I believe I stated as such in my discussion earlier above. I too am troubled by the idea of how often and how easily people can be ripped off on eBay and never once said that it wasn't a problem because it really is.

What I wanted to express is that eBay also has its benefits, which some people also don't know about because they keep hearing how bad it is. Think of it like this: If there were a road with a sharp curve and cars traveled on it successfully everyday, should it be torn down because people also crash on it? ;)

eBay should do more about the fraud, I agree. By revisiting this subject, we can inform people of what to watch out for because it really is a shame if people avoid eBay simply because of the fact that bad things also happen. We can't help the entire world avoid fraud, but we can try in a small way to inform others even if its in the simple form of an online community, and telling them blindly to avoid things isn't helping (which I know no one is saying here, just illustrating a point). However, if eBay ever gets that bad then I too will be one of the first people to say that eBay is rife with deceit! Just hope they're not gonna let it get that way...

On a side note: $14,000! You have more trust than I do for eBay, that's great!

Christopher Go · August 4th, 2003, 10:38 PM

On yet another note, I don't think its as easy as blocking IP addresses or ranges even. I used to work as a network support engineer and blocking IPs can get difficult at the different routers since these IPs often belong to legitimate networks and are usually given to clients dynamically. For example, if you're on the Road Runner network, a legitimate network, and you are a con artist, eBay could block that IP. But because Road Runner implements dynamic IPs for their cable modem clients (as opposed to DSL ones with static IPs) that IP address could be released, it could expire, or it could be reassigned in which case the next client to get it would innocently and mistakenly be banned from eBay. Then there's the fact that you can log into your eBay account from any computer.

A bigger problem is that IPs are easy to spoof and if you are trying to steal people's money online I certainly hope you know how to do some rudimentary IP spoofing. On top of all this there is always new ways to fool the system (running an account honestly for a while before turning cheater, continually changing user IDs, etc)

But I move on: eBay should make a greater public show of what they do with offenders or at least make efforts to alleviate people's concerns that its full of fraud. The way they're behaving with fraud cases is typical of giant corporations only concerned with making profit.

Uh-oh. You've gotten me started, Robbie. I feel like complaining to eBay to get their fraud under control...

Peter Jefferson · August 5th, 2003, 10:34 AM

HA!
Just saw one on ebay today for 1100... its gone up to 1350...
deadset, if things are too good to be true, it means they are...

July 20th, 2003, 11:48 PM	#1
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	More dvx100 SCAMS on ebay? What's up with ebay? Don't you think that EVENTUALLY they should have SOME responsibility to police themselves? If I own a shopping mall and I collect fees from crooks who want to scam unsuspecting shoppers... can I really just claim a "buyer beware" policy and take no responsibility? Or am I wrong and the SAME EXACT PHOTO of a stack of dvx100 boxes on the same flight of stairs... is legit? Every month there is a new run of ebay ads with the same picture showing the same dvx100 boxes on the same stairs... ok it's the SAME picture. Funny thing is the seller is different every month? Seem scammy? Sorry to vent...

July 21st, 2003, 12:49 AM	#2
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	eBay Scams its true... my friend i was almost doopt... some guy tried to sell me an xl1s for 1400.00 so i emailed ebay fraud support and they reported back to me in the nick of time as i was about to send him a payment for it... it turns out that the guy hacked into someones account and rerouted all emails to his and was doing fraud business from Romania... now i deffinately know not to ever do any type of eBaying Internationally... its just too dam risky... if it was in the usa i could get the fbi involved but not across international borders... EBAY BUYER BE WARNED.... DONT BE FOOLED.... Sincerly Brian G.

July 21st, 2003, 01:16 AM	#3
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	That picture with the AG-DVX100 sitting on boxes is used a lot, that's true. However, that in itself doesn't necessarily mean its a scam. I agree with you that its shady though because what you're really seeing is a common practice not just on eBay but across the web: people lifting images and text that don't belong to them for their purposes. I've seen this a lot and its happened to me too. People who for whatever reason - maybe they don't have a digital camera, are too lazy, or just plain unscrupulous - simply copy other people's pictures and even descriptions for their auctions. It may be a legitimate auction except they don't realize how shady it makes them look when customers find out. I was surprised to see a picture of mine along with MY words used in an auction for the same item. Anyway, I'm saying this because I believe the original photo belongs to studio-exchange, the eBayer who IS an authorized reseller according to Panasonic's own website (if you go to their site and click on 'how to buy' enter zipcode 91502 to find a dealer and Studio Exchange will come up). I've purchased from then once before and it was a good transaction although I didn't go through eBay. Maybe Studio-Exchange should change their picture - I certainly hope they didn't lift that picture from someone else! I think you've pointed out an excellent way to point out potentially shady dealers though. If they can't even get their own photos, it makes me wonder about the rest of their operation....

July 21st, 2003, 04:51 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	one thing i do with any purchases over 100 bux is contact the seller via email.. if they contact me and we create a rapport, or tehy have a legit business website (which most do) i will do business with them from tehre... most of teh time, theyre prices arent all that different from teh ebay ones, and you end up with peace of mind (as well as a discount as THEY dont have to pay much if they dont sell the item thru ebay... ) I found a good DVX deal with mic and extended worldwide warranty for $4500AUD less than what i would have paid... (i cant say where i got it from as i did that once and had my post deleted.) but good deals CAN be found if you are patient and do your research...

July 21st, 2003, 04:35 PM	#5
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Where I have the problem is in the "how many do you want?" which implies that the stack of 'em is in fact... a fact... maybe not that SAME picture, but you're telling me that somebody is actually selling brand-new dvx100's for $1800-$1900? Please tell me that this IS in fact legitimate... 'cause in that case my answer to "how many do you want?" is "two please"... And by the way... I looked into the Studio Exchange deal and they have a category called "Hot Deals"... their "Hot Deal" on a dvx100 is $3295... a far cry from the ebay ads which feature "new usa dvx100's" for $1800. I hate to quote the old "too good to be true" thing so I won't even though I kinda' did.

July 21st, 2003, 05:02 PM	#6
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Oh yeah, and SO FAR every time I see these ebay deals with the dvx100's for SUB-$2K all the feedback says NOTHING about ANY dvx100's... Don't you think that if somebody "gave" you a dvx100 for $1900 that you'd be pleased enough to leave a positive comment? Nope, every single ebay seller that has come up with the now famous "stairway to dv heaven" has NO feedback pertaining to the cameras... they've all been buyers of unrelated items to build a feedback profile... and the location of this month's contestant is "(&("... sounds like a fine "Mayberry" type of town. The guy last month had about the same amount of feedback but it was all in French... nothing against that except that was the first time I clicked on a feedback report and everything was IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE! Whatever... Hey when you guys say be patient and you'll find a good price why don't you spare us the sage wisdom and just tell us where you got yours and how much you paid? Sorry for the edgy attitude today... that ebay thing really has me cheezed. So far that auction has been running for 2 days and there are still 5 AVAILABLE... SO DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND RUN... DON'T WALK!... to get yourself pre-approved as a buyer... ha! Cheez-n-effin'rice.

July 21st, 2003, 09:45 PM	#7
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	Amen brother !!!

July 22nd, 2003, 04:54 AM	#8
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i wish it was 2grand US, i woulda goten 3 or 3even 4 and resold them here to pay for my own... i actually did post a link once to the site wher eigot it from and no it wasnt for $1800, i pad around $3200 US and the AUD was strong so i ended up payin a good price... As for ebay, for ANYTHING over at least $500US, i still say be patient (for the vendor to get back to you ;) ) and in all honesty, id forget the auctions... theyre not worth the hassle when they fall thru... especially with items like this... Ebay is a good contact site, u may as well use it

July 24th, 2003, 06:32 PM	#9
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	Hi guys, I had originally posted a message about finding good deals on Ebay and who to get it from, but had my post deleted (which I understand). Just so you know, I have bought a brand new (non-grey market) dvx100 with all the accessories for only $2800 total. The person who is selling them is legit and sells over 5-10 a day. The XL1 prices are even lower..... Just wanted to say that not everything on Ebay is a scam.

July 31st, 2003, 10:53 AM	#10
Robbie Smolinsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 142	Ebay is a tricky place, and the fraud is really getting out of control. There have been days that I was looking at PD150s, Xl1s and DVX100s where there appeared to be more fradulent listings than legit ones. Most of the scammers are actually quite lazy, usually they will only list specifications, and nothing personal about the history of the camera, or ask you to email them for a "special buy it now price" and things of that sort. And frequently they do borrow pictures from other auctions, but there are some legit sellers who also do this because of lack of access to a camera or laziness. Brian, I find it funny that you mention that guy from Romania (there is probably more than one), as he stole some money from me way back in the day when I first started out on Ebay and was trying to buy a 3ccd camera. A few weeks ago, a U.S. Marshall showed up on my doorstep to serve me some papers (requesting my testimony for his criminal trial), and it appears as though this jerk has been apprehended and stands to serve like 20+ years in jail, so at least something is being done about it. However, I think in Romania, 20+ years in jail equates to really just having your hands cut off and being raped in the woods someplace, at least that seems like a fitting punishment to me since stealing from honest people (and making a living from it) is one of the lowest forms of crime in my opinion. So apparently, while the FBI does not have International jurisdiction, the US Marshall's office does have an International Crime section. The bottom line is if there is any doubt, there is NO doubt. What I mean is if anything about a transaction seems fishy, or the persons feedback doesn't really make sense for what is being sold (i.e. the person has 3 XL1s' up for sale and all the feedbacxk they have is for buying beauty products), then you should absolutely avoid them. Not to mention that there are no legit sellers (that I know of) who would willingly put up a camera that goes for $3000+ normally at auction with a Buy It Now of $1500. Robbie

August 3rd, 2003, 07:31 AM	#11
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	I completely agree with all that's been said. I did not at any point say that those $2000 deals were legit, only that Studio-Exchange is a legit dealer as Matt discovered with their price, and that I think Studio-Exchange was the original seller to have the photo with all the DVX100s on the stairs. Its unfortunate that those scam artists stole the picture from Studio-Exchange since by association it also makes Studio-Exchange look shady, which they are not. This is where I got mine: Zotz Digital. But I have purchased a Sennheiser ME66 microphone, Sound Devices preamp, Tascam DAT, and other expensive items successfully from eBay. In my opinion, the rise in fraudulent sales on eBay reflects the increased number of business on eBay and on the web in general. When credit cards were first used on the Internet, thieves soon learned to follow and many businesses had to secure websites, databases, etc in response to consumer fears. Many people are still ripped off but people ARE ordering on the 'net successfully these days, correct? In the same vein of thought, many transactions are completed without problem on eBay with the usual given proportion of fraudulant/problematic sales. This is a fact of business wherever you go whether on the 'net or in real life. There will always be people looking to find new ways to steal your money. But as shown by this thread, we obviously know how to avoid bad sellers, even on eBay: check feedback, establish email communication first, etc. I don't see what the problem is here? Saying that all of eBay is a scam is like saying the Internet is a scam. True to a degree, but also true is that eBay's great for buying and selling, which is evidenced by the thousands of good feedback you also see in addition to the bad. If you don't trust it, then don't and that's that. As far as the AG-DVX100, there are no cheap alternatives. Perhaps the problem isn't with eBay, but with people unwilling to drop the cash on the items they want. Everyone want's good deals but in the end we all know what we have to do if we want better service, reliablity, etc: quit griping, avoid the too-good-to-be-true deals, and drop the dough. If you can't afford it, don't risk it.

August 3rd, 2003, 08:12 PM	#12
Robbie Smolinsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 142	I will have to second Christopher on this. Sure fraud is and always will be a problem, but at the same time, what lures people into these sorts of bad deals is the desire to save money. Sometimes its just better to bite the bullet and go with a well known retailer. And Christopher, I hope you weren't addressing to me when you say "I don't see what the problem is here? Saying that all of eBay is a scam is like saying the Internet is a scam" because in my post, I did not mean to come off like that at all. And I apologize if I expressed that all of Ebay and the Internet is some evil machine, that was not the intention. Personally, in the last month or so I have had over $14K in sales on Ebay and have purchased over 5 grand worth of stuff as well. Ebay is a great place to do business but I think what is bothering people most is not even the fraudulent sales necessarily, it's more Ebay's indifference towards the problem. You're right when you say that WE all know how to avoid the problem sellers, but there are a lot of people out there on Ebay who don't. Its not fair to be so selfish as to say...well, we all know how to figure out the good from the bad, so its not a problem.... I feel bad for the high school kid who works his or her tail off to scrap together enough cash to buy a camera and some extras with a dream of making a great movie, and when he thinks he's just getting a great deal on Ebay, he will be robbed blind. Think of it like this: If there were a road with a sharp curve and cars crashed on it everyday, is it not a problem because you have never had an accident there? Now to be fair, 99.9% of the transactions on Ebay are legit transactions, and it is a very safe place to do business with a number of ways to find credentials and history of sellers; however, there is a disproportionate amount of fradulent sales in electronics, and camcorders specifically, because they are high value auctions, but not so expensive that people may try to do a complete backround check first. Its just hard for me because I see the SAME EXACT auctions being offered continually (that are so obviously fradulent). And by "same exact" I mean literally, the font, the print, the description and the pictures are all the same. It is really not all that hard to block and IP address, or even a a larger network of them from your servers, so maybe if Ebay just went after these repeat offenders, that would solve the majority of the problem in one quick move. Or they could establish a system that sends a red flag to them when a seller has been selling low priced novelty items from Colorado for 3 years, and then suddenly posts a number of high priced electronics and changes their location information to Spain, Italy or any other location. But this post is getting to darn long so here is my conclusion: Yes, Ebay is good, almost all of the sales are legit, and its all buyer beware. But, especially after the merge of Paypal and Ebay, it is one of the quickest growing and most profitable businesses around (dealing specifically in offering a direct service to people), and they seem to lack consideration for the safety of everyone who uses their service. We are smart enough (unfortunately I had to learn the hard way) to know a good deal from a bad one, but there are a lot of buyers out there who are neive, and I think the argument here is that Ebay should be doing more to look out for those people.

August 4th, 2003, 10:25 PM	#13
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Hey Robbie, I completely understand what you're saying. When you put it that way I agree as well that eBay seems indifferent to people's problems. I wasn't addressing anyone specific, I myself was reflecting another side of the rant of the eBay debate where on one hand there is the suspicion and on the other the appreciation for this new and strange form of doing business. Too often I've been seeing these kind of "what's up with eBay" concerns and just simply wanted to express another point of view. I fully acknowledge that eBay can be problematic (as a dangerous curve in the road can be as you so wonderfully described) and I believe I stated as such in my discussion earlier above. I too am troubled by the idea of how often and how easily people can be ripped off on eBay and never once said that it wasn't a problem because it really is. What I wanted to express is that eBay also has its benefits, which some people also don't know about because they keep hearing how bad it is. Think of it like this: If there were a road with a sharp curve and cars traveled on it successfully everyday, should it be torn down because people also crash on it? ;) eBay should do more about the fraud, I agree. By revisiting this subject, we can inform people of what to watch out for because it really is a shame if people avoid eBay simply because of the fact that bad things also happen. We can't help the entire world avoid fraud, but we can try in a small way to inform others even if its in the simple form of an online community, and telling them blindly to avoid things isn't helping (which I know no one is saying here, just illustrating a point). However, if eBay ever gets that bad then I too will be one of the first people to say that eBay is rife with deceit! Just hope they're not gonna let it get that way... On a side note: $14,000! You have more trust than I do for eBay, that's great!

August 4th, 2003, 10:38 PM	#14
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	On yet another note, I don't think its as easy as blocking IP addresses or ranges even. I used to work as a network support engineer and blocking IPs can get difficult at the different routers since these IPs often belong to legitimate networks and are usually given to clients dynamically. For example, if you're on the Road Runner network, a legitimate network, and you are a con artist, eBay could block that IP. But because Road Runner implements dynamic IPs for their cable modem clients (as opposed to DSL ones with static IPs) that IP address could be released, it could expire, or it could be reassigned in which case the next client to get it would innocently and mistakenly be banned from eBay. Then there's the fact that you can log into your eBay account from any computer. A bigger problem is that IPs are easy to spoof and if you are trying to steal people's money online I certainly hope you know how to do some rudimentary IP spoofing. On top of all this there is always new ways to fool the system (running an account honestly for a while before turning cheater, continually changing user IDs, etc) But I move on: eBay should make a greater public show of what they do with offenders or at least make efforts to alleviate people's concerns that its full of fraud. The way they're behaving with fraud cases is typical of giant corporations only concerned with making profit. Uh-oh. You've gotten me started, Robbie. I feel like complaining to eBay to get their fraud under control...

August 5th, 2003, 10:34 AM	#15
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	HA! Just saw one on ebay today for 1100... its gone up to 1350... deadset, if things are too good to be true, it means they are...