Insurance -- the big discussion thread

Tony Webber · September 11th, 2002, 04:53 PM

hi,

I was wondering if someone could explain to me what liability insurance is and what kind of things it might cover you for.

I am soon to be shooting a short film and am assuming that some sort of insurance would be a good idea to cover myself.

I have heard of two types of insurance here in england:

1. public liability
2. employers liability

any info on the difference between them or other info you think might be useful would be grately recieved

regards

tony webber

Ken Tanaka · September 11th, 2002, 05:15 PM

Hi Tony,
Well, I'll try to briefly get the ball rolling although insurance standards in the UK are likely a bit different than the US.

Basically, a general liability insurance policy is intended as a type of surety bond against damage or injury that you might cause in the course of your work. For example, if you overload the mains on someone else's property (as a result of your magnificent lighting) your insurance should cover any damage caused by the incident.

Here in the US it's common to be required to provide a certificate of general liability insurance ($1million and up) as well as as a separate policy covering vehicular casualty before being granted a permit to shoot on civic as well as private property.

In essence, it's a cost of doing business.

Jeff Donald · September 11th, 2002, 08:53 PM

I'm going to make a guess here, but employers liability is probably what we call workman's compensation or some form of it. If someone working for you gets hurt on the job (your magnificent lights happen to fall on the directors head) it pays all (or perhaps only a portion) of the medical expenses. It may also pay the injured employee while he is recovering (disabled). if your using non-compensated people (volunteers) you may still be liable if they are injured. The laws will vary from state to state and country to country.

Jeff

Derrick Begin · September 24th, 2002, 07:52 AM

F.Y.I.

I bought workers compensation from the state of New York for my short production. It protects you, cast, and crew, against any accidents on the location. I bought it for a month period for 265.00. Reasonbable considering the cost if a hot light fries someone.

Hope this helped...

Cheers!

Derrick

Don Donatello · September 26th, 2002, 01:41 PM

workmans comp IMO is well worth the $$$ ... on most dv's projects crews get paid NOTHING . if they get hurt they have to pay their own doctor's bills and/or file a suit against the persons behind the project ( and if those persons have assets they are at RISK) .. if one has workmans comp for the project then the crew medical bills will be PAID...

IMO protect your crew and your ASSets !!!!

Jeff Donald · September 26th, 2002, 03:30 PM

Workman's compensation is a state run program so it varies from state to state. In Ohio, the State will pay unpaid workers claims then go after the employer for unpaid premiums, penalties and possible jail time if there is a pattern of fraud.

Jeff

Mike Rehmus · September 29th, 2002, 07:53 PM

I decided to not temp fate and be a star participant in a video version of Nannygate.

I hire my crew through a local temp agency that gives me a good price since I bring them the people. I decide on the pay rate. All of the paperwork is completed, taxes paid, the crew have insurance coverage, and I get to pay the temp agency once per month. Better than getting sued when one of the crew gets hurt. As far as I can tell, the crew meet all the tests of being an employee. Work when and where I direct and use my tools. So Nannygate could certainly happen.

I almost had that brought home when I put a cameraman on top of a roof while the SWAT team tossed a flash-bang outside the home they were storming (this was training). The cameraman bounced about 2 feet straight up and slid towards the edge of the roof. He stopped just before he went over.

I've been shooting police videos for 3 years here in Vallejo, CA and have worked out the following ground rules with the police I ride with and the citizens I tape (shoot is such a negative thought).

1. I turn off the camera whenever I am asked.
2. I will erase tape right then and there if requested.
3. I don't carry a camera into a dwelling. I do take and operate one in a place of business.
4. I do tape people in public. The police are quick to point out that I have a right to do so. Many of the bad guys are worried that their faces will appear on the 5 o'clock news. They are relieved when they find out I am filming for the police department.
5. I have a hat that says in big letters, VPD Photographer.
6. I have a Volunteer Police badge that gets me into and out of a lot of places.
7. I make certain that the police know me and are not threatened when I show up on scene (The Chief gave me a police radio so I can go out crusing and following the action, and I get called out along with the SWAT team whenever.)
8. I wear a vest.
9. I know how to get the shotgun out of the cradle
10 I use the zoom lens and let the young officers chase the bad guys.
11. I don't point my fingers (or any other object) at the police dogs. Cameras are OK, they tend to be hams anyway.
12. If I need a release, I exchange a copy of their video for the right to use their image and voice. My releases are printed on 4 by 6 inch card stock.
13. I furnish video clips at N/C on request to the DA and attorneys if I've taped an incident and they need a copy.

I've laughingly threatened to sue them if they ever decide I cannot do this anymore. It is interesting to say the least.

So far the only police footage I've done that has hit the airwaves was video I shot of a K-9 officer that was killed the day before the TLC crew was scheduled to follow him around. My footage ended up on their K-9 program that broadcast last February (and they gave me no credit!). OK, they did insist on paying $150 for the footage.

Mike Rehmus · September 29th, 2002, 08:03 PM

I hire my crew through a local temp agency. They take care of all the paperwork, taxes, insurance, etc. They make certain the person can legally drive, has no criminal record, etc.

All I have to do is pay the bill once per month (credit cards happily accepted). Since I bring them the people, they don't have to test them and I get a good rate.

My company liability insurance is via the agency WEVA has made available to members. I've had to have them send a coverage letter to the local city purchasing department and to San Francisco State University. Without it, I could not work for them. The best $500 per year I spend.

Jeff Donald · September 30th, 2002, 05:42 AM

Hiring through the temp agency makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about hiring that way. I think I'm going to look into that.

Jeff

fargogogo · October 17th, 2002, 06:22 AM

What if your production has several locations across the country? Do you need to buy a workers comp policy for every state you'll be working in? What about working in other countries?

Thanks.

fargogogo · November 7th, 2002, 07:50 AM

Does anyone associtated with these "reality" shows know if the producers have Errors and Omissions insurance to protect them in the event of a liable or slander lawsuit? Or is there another type of insurance that covers everything? (workers, liability, etc?)

Thanks.

Mike Rehmus · November 7th, 2002, 01:57 PM

That's not the purpose of E&O coverage as I understand it. Liability insurance is for that purpose.

BTW, understand that the mere presence of insurance does not mean that you won't get hit in the pocketbook.

Mark Thomas · November 19th, 2002, 03:41 PM

How do you insure your camera against theft? What if you took your camera on vacation and had it stolen from the hotel or got mugged on the street?

Mike Rehmus · November 19th, 2002, 04:07 PM

Since I run a video business, I have all of my gear insured (as well as my business) through the insurance company arranged by WEVA (Wedding and Event Videographers Association).

It is a full-replacement cost policy. Costs $550 per year or about 1% of what it would cost to replace everything if my studio burned down.

I have $25,000 of coverage on gear I take into the field.

Also covers gear, buildings, boats and aircraft I rent.

Still, my policy is to never leave equipment unattended. Anywhere, anytime except in my studio which is protected by a darned good alarm system and a fairly large Rotteweiler.

Well, OK, she'd lick you to death and show you where the goodies are but when you are outside and she is inside, you'd think she would leave nothing but clothing labels if you got in there with her.

That said, if someone wants the equipment and is carrying a persuader, they can have it. I may ask for a receipt for the police report but they can have it. :-)) I would ask them to let me keep the tape though.

A home policy will usually not cover video gear (or computers) that are used for business. Even a part-time business.

Don Donatello · November 19th, 2002, 06:58 PM

adding to Mikes comments on Home insurance.

if you use it for BUSINESS / make $$ it is NOT covered .. some insurance will let you add a FLOATER for it to be covered.

now if you do NOT charge and it is just a hobby most insurance will cover your camera ( provided it is more of a consumer type - pd 150 , XL would probably qualify BUT not a dsr 500 , something that read PROFESSIONAL ) .. there is also usually a MAX $$ amount they will cover ( could be 1000 or 2500 depending on your insurance) . again to go over the max amount a FLOATER can be added. when i looked into mine .. to cover 25K (camera, decks,editing etc) they wanted 600 year for the floater with 500 deductable ( non professional).

for 1 million liabilty floater $90 year (again non business, non professional)

protecting my ASSets i do carry a 1 million professional liability policy 900 year ( no dramatic projects covered .. for the 1 million policy to cover dramatic projects it was 1400 a year )...
i carry this because sometimes i work on friends projects which they intend to make $$. i received NO $$ , i take NO POINTS , i just help out for FREE BUT most of these projects have no insurance and when it comes down to WHO pays in CAILF it's the person with the deepest pockets therefore i cover my ASSets.
my home insurance has stated they will NOT cover any project that has the intent to make $$.

September 11th, 2002, 04:53 PM	#46
Tony Webber Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: uk Posts: 57	liability insurance hi, I was wondering if someone could explain to me what liability insurance is and what kind of things it might cover you for. I am soon to be shooting a short film and am assuming that some sort of insurance would be a good idea to cover myself. I have heard of two types of insurance here in england: 1. public liability 2. employers liability any info on the difference between them or other info you think might be useful would be grately recieved regards tony webber

September 11th, 2002, 05:15 PM	#47
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hi Tony, Well, I'll try to briefly get the ball rolling although insurance standards in the UK are likely a bit different than the US. Basically, a general liability insurance policy is intended as a type of surety bond against damage or injury that you might cause in the course of your work. For example, if you overload the mains on someone else's property (as a result of your magnificent lighting) your insurance should cover any damage caused by the incident. Here in the US it's common to be required to provide a certificate of general liability insurance ($1million and up) as well as as a separate policy covering vehicular casualty before being granted a permit to shoot on civic as well as private property. In essence, it's a cost of doing business. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

September 24th, 2002, 07:52 AM	#49
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	*** * WORKERS COMPENSATION * *** F.Y.I. I bought workers compensation from the state of New York for my short production. It protects you, cast, and crew, against any accidents on the location. I bought it for a month period for 265.00. Reasonbable considering the cost if a hot light fries someone. Hope this helped... Cheers! Derrick

September 29th, 2002, 07:53 PM	#52
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I decided to not temp fate and be a star participant in a video version of Nannygate. I hire my crew through a local temp agency that gives me a good price since I bring them the people. I decide on the pay rate. All of the paperwork is completed, taxes paid, the crew have insurance coverage, and I get to pay the temp agency once per month. Better than getting sued when one of the crew gets hurt. As far as I can tell, the crew meet all the tests of being an employee. Work when and where I direct and use my tools. So Nannygate could certainly happen. I almost had that brought home when I put a cameraman on top of a roof while the SWAT team tossed a flash-bang outside the home they were storming (this was training). The cameraman bounced about 2 feet straight up and slid towards the edge of the roof. He stopped just before he went over. I've been shooting police videos for 3 years here in Vallejo, CA and have worked out the following ground rules with the police I ride with and the citizens I tape (shoot is such a negative thought). 1. I turn off the camera whenever I am asked. 2. I will erase tape right then and there if requested. 3. I don't carry a camera into a dwelling. I do take and operate one in a place of business. 4. I do tape people in public. The police are quick to point out that I have a right to do so. Many of the bad guys are worried that their faces will appear on the 5 o'clock news. They are relieved when they find out I am filming for the police department. 5. I have a hat that says in big letters, VPD Photographer. 6. I have a Volunteer Police badge that gets me into and out of a lot of places. 7. I make certain that the police know me and are not threatened when I show up on scene (The Chief gave me a police radio so I can go out crusing and following the action, and I get called out along with the SWAT team whenever.) 8. I wear a vest. 9. I know how to get the shotgun out of the cradle 10 I use the zoom lens and let the young officers chase the bad guys. 11. I don't point my fingers (or any other object) at the police dogs. Cameras are OK, they tend to be hams anyway. 12. If I need a release, I exchange a copy of their video for the right to use their image and voice. My releases are printed on 4 by 6 inch card stock. 13. I furnish video clips at N/C on request to the DA and attorneys if I've taped an incident and they need a copy. I've laughingly threatened to sue them if they ever decide I cannot do this anymore. It is interesting to say the least. So far the only police footage I've done that has hit the airwaves was video I shot of a K-9 officer that was killed the day before the TLC crew was scheduled to follow him around. My footage ended up on their K-9 program that broadcast last February (and they gave me no credit!). OK, they did insist on paying $150 for the footage. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 29th, 2002, 08:03 PM	#53
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I hire my crew through a local temp agency. They take care of all the paperwork, taxes, insurance, etc. They make certain the person can legally drive, has no criminal record, etc. All I have to do is pay the bill once per month (credit cards happily accepted). Since I bring them the people, they don't have to test them and I get a good rate. My company liability insurance is via the agency WEVA has made available to members. I've had to have them send a coverage letter to the local city purchasing department and to San Francisco State University. Without it, I could not work for them. The best $500 per year I spend. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 11th, 2002, 08:53 PM	#48
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I'm going to make a guess here, but employers liability is probably what we call workman's compensation or some form of it. If someone working for you gets hurt on the job (your magnificent lights happen to fall on the directors head) it pays all (or perhaps only a portion) of the medical expenses. It may also pay the injured employee while he is recovering (disabled). if your using non-compensated people (volunteers) you may still be liable if they are injured. The laws will vary from state to state and country to country. Jeff

September 26th, 2002, 01:41 PM	#50
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	workmans comp IMO is well worth the $$$ ... on most dv's projects crews get paid NOTHING . if they get hurt they have to pay their own doctor's bills and/or file a suit against the persons behind the project ( and if those persons have assets they are at RISK) .. if one has workmans comp for the project then the crew medical bills will be PAID... IMO protect your crew and your ASSets !!!!

September 26th, 2002, 03:30 PM	#51
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Workman's compensation is a state run program so it varies from state to state. In Ohio, the State will pay unpaid workers claims then go after the employer for unpaid premiums, penalties and possible jail time if there is a pattern of fraud. Jeff

September 30th, 2002, 05:42 AM	#54
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Hiring through the temp agency makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about hiring that way. I think I'm going to look into that. Jeff

October 17th, 2002, 06:22 AM	#55
fargogogo Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 49	What if your production has several locations across the country? Do you need to buy a workers comp policy for every state you'll be working in? What about working in other countries? Thanks.

November 7th, 2002, 07:50 AM	#56
fargogogo Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 49	E&O insurance Does anyone associtated with these "reality" shows know if the producers have Errors and Omissions insurance to protect them in the event of a liable or slander lawsuit? Or is there another type of insurance that covers everything? (workers, liability, etc?) Thanks.

November 7th, 2002, 01:57 PM	#57
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	That's not the purpose of E&O coverage as I understand it. Liability insurance is for that purpose. BTW, understand that the mere presence of insurance does not mean that you won't get hit in the pocketbook. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 19th, 2002, 03:41 PM	#58
Mark Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Abergavenny, Monmouthshire Posts: 34	Insurance How do you insure your camera against theft? What if you took your camera on vacation and had it stolen from the hotel or got mugged on the street?

November 19th, 2002, 04:07 PM	#59
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Since I run a video business, I have all of my gear insured (as well as my business) through the insurance company arranged by WEVA (Wedding and Event Videographers Association). It is a full-replacement cost policy. Costs $550 per year or about 1% of what it would cost to replace everything if my studio burned down. I have $25,000 of coverage on gear I take into the field. Also covers gear, buildings, boats and aircraft I rent. Still, my policy is to never leave equipment unattended. Anywhere, anytime except in my studio which is protected by a darned good alarm system and a fairly large Rotteweiler. Well, OK, she'd lick you to death and show you where the goodies are but when you are outside and she is inside, you'd think she would leave nothing but clothing labels if you got in there with her. That said, if someone wants the equipment and is carrying a persuader, they can have it. I may ask for a receipt for the police report but they can have it. :-)) I would ask them to let me keep the tape though. A home policy will usually not cover video gear (or computers) that are used for business. Even a part-time business. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 19th, 2002, 06:58 PM	#60
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	adding to Mikes comments on Home insurance. if you use it for BUSINESS / make $$ it is NOT covered .. some insurance will let you add a FLOATER for it to be covered. now if you do NOT charge and it is just a hobby most insurance will cover your camera ( provided it is more of a consumer type - pd 150 , XL would probably qualify BUT not a dsr 500 , something that read PROFESSIONAL ) .. there is also usually a MAX $$ amount they will cover ( could be 1000 or 2500 depending on your insurance) . again to go over the max amount a FLOATER can be added. when i looked into mine .. to cover 25K (camera, decks,editing etc) they wanted 600 year for the floater with 500 deductable ( non professional). for 1 million liabilty floater $90 year (again non business, non professional) protecting my ASSets i do carry a 1 million professional liability policy 900 year ( no dramatic projects covered .. for the 1 million policy to cover dramatic projects it was 1400 a year )... i carry this because sometimes i work on friends projects which they intend to make $$. i received NO $$ , i take NO POINTS , i just help out for FREE BUT most of these projects have no insurance and when it comes down to WHO pays in CAILF it's the person with the deepest pockets therefore i cover my ASSets. my home insurance has stated they will NOT cover any project that has the intent to make $$.