Insurance -- the big discussion thread

Taky Cheung · December 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Heiner

canon xl1-s
monitor
tripod
field monitors
everything you need, and 5000 is nothing as you know.

So, did you insure your equipment?

Bob Hollifield · December 13th, 2007, 05:10 AM

Anna, Nationwide insurance will let you add an inland marine floater to your tenant or homeowner policy. Be sure to tell them to check professional when they are inputing the data. bob

Anna Harmon · December 13th, 2007, 07:00 AM

Thanks Bob. Would it be better to get your own insurance or use a production's insurance? Is it wise to insure or should I just think of the costs for repair/replacement as a business expense?

I mean in the long run it's just stuff. Everything can be replaceable (not people).

I haven't had anything break on me until yesterday. Thank God it was only a breakaway cable (don't have time to repair it, have a shoot tomorrow, plus cables are never the same after a repair).

For those wondering why I haven't yet, I don't see why someone has to buy insurance and keep throwing money away on the off chance something will happen.

Michael Nistler · December 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Hi Anna,

Talk to folks like your local NY professional videographer association for lots of horror stories about getting their gear stolen - even when videotaping an event for many hours and leaving 1-2 minutes for a bathroom break. Then there's the issue of injuring someone with your gear, etc. at a paid event. Insurance may not be for everyone, but it reminds me of the pogniant bumper sticker, "Backups are for sissies!"

Regards, Michael

Anna Harmon · December 13th, 2007, 05:44 PM

Ha ha Michael! Call me a rebel!

I hear ya on that. But doesn't that fall on the production company?

Michael Nistler · December 13th, 2007, 08:16 PM

Hi Anna,

Yes, that's usually true if you're dealing with a legitimate production firm - check your T&Cs to see if you're covered or not. There may be a world of difference between status as an hourly employee, individual contract, business firm subcontract, etc.

Indies are another matter, and of course if you are the production company, they let your conscious be your guide!

Regards, Michael

Anna Harmon · December 13th, 2007, 09:35 PM

I just bitch until someone pays for the replacement or repair.

It's been working fine. I mean if it happens during their production because of someone else (not me), then they're partially liable.

Even with insurance it takes forever to actually get anything for your loss and then it's depreciated. Nevermind if it was mint.

And what if you have a shoot the next day? Are you supposed to rent 'til they replace? Front the money 'til you get it back?

I don't really get it. You're paying either way.

Sounds like a racket. I can understand why you would need it for a production but for individuals to insure their gear, I'm still not convinced. I'm super curious though.

Steve House · December 14th, 2007, 04:55 AM

Self-insurance is fine when it comes to your own gear - you asses your risks, pays your money, and takes your chances. But liability insurance to cover your responsibility for injury to others is another matter - having that coverage when your activities might present some risk to others is just part of one's obligation to be a responsible citizen even if there is no specific legal requirement. If a hot light that you've failed to secure properly falls over and severely injures someone, it's you who should rightly pay for the consequences and if you can't afford to pay out of your own pocket the thousands upon thousands of dollars a serious injury would cost, it's your ethical responsiblilty to carry insurance coverage that will. Plus when you go on location there are a number of venues that won't let you set foot on the property without proof of coverage so that they aren't liable for accidents to you or your gear or for injury you might cause others while on their property.

Anna Harmon · December 14th, 2007, 08:29 AM

So Steve do you have insurance or do you leave it to the production company?

Wayne Brissette · December 14th, 2007, 09:31 AM

Here is one company recommended to me:

Brandy Mcgrew
DeWitt Stern of California Insurance Services
10969 Ventura Boulevard
Studio City, CA 91604
Tel. 818-623-5429
Fax. 818-623-5469
bmcgrew@dewittstern.com
www.dewittstern.com

I still haven't gotten my insurance, although looking at rates and what is and isn't covered, I'm having a tough time deciding what to do as far as how much coverage vs. cost.

Wayne

Anna Harmon · December 14th, 2007, 09:33 AM

Wayne, that's the company I looked at as well. My quote was astronomical. But I was insuring ALL my stuff.

Wayne Brissette · December 14th, 2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Harmon

Wayne, that's the company I looked at as well. My quote was astronomical. But I was insuring ALL my stuff.

Well, me too... but when I typically have close to 25K worth of gear on-site at shoots, I really do need coverage. On major shoots, the production company picks up any insurance but on industrial and smaller shoots, I'm on my own. I have only once rented out any of my gear without me being on-site, but that kind of scared me a bit. Although I have to admit I have a very good working relationship with Zaxcom so if anything had happened to my Deva when I wasn't there, I'm sure I could have worked something out with them.

Wayne

Steve House · December 14th, 2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Harmon

So Steve do you have insurance or do you leave it to the production company?

At the present I don't have the need but you can bet as my situation evolves it will be high on the list of priorities.

Anna Harmon · December 14th, 2007, 02:53 PM

I can't imagine renting out my gear. Unless it was a sound buddy who needed something right quick I'm not advertising a rental.

BTW, not too happy that this got moved. This is an audio equipment question, to generalize it and put it in this thread hurts me. Chris, did you do this? I wanted sound people to answer this specifically, I don't wanna hear from the video folks (no offense to the video guys).

Michael Nistler · December 14th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Geez Anna, I thought it was a brilliant move that they reposted you here (but what do I know, association was never my strong area).

Still, it seems like the cost of pro-audio gear is in the same genre as videographers. Ditto with hazardous problems associated with XLR cables, electrical shock, boom poles vs C stands, etc.

OTOH, I'd agree audio engineers work processes are often quite different than a DP. Hopefully, you'll still get some helpful responses here in this thread.

Warm Regards, Michael

December 14th, 2007, 04:55 AM	#383
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Self-insurance is fine when it comes to your own gear - you asses your risks, pays your money, and takes your chances. But liability insurance to cover your responsibility for injury to others is another matter - having that coverage when your activities might present some risk to others is just part of one's obligation to be a responsible citizen even if there is no specific legal requirement. If a hot light that you've failed to secure properly falls over and severely injures someone, it's you who should rightly pay for the consequences and if you can't afford to pay out of your own pocket the thousands upon thousands of dollars a serious injury would cost, it's your ethical responsiblilty to carry insurance coverage that will. Plus when you go on location there are a number of venues that won't let you set foot on the property without proof of coverage so that they aren't liable for accidents to you or your gear or for injury you might cause others while on their property. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

December 14th, 2007, 09:31 AM	#385
Wayne Brissette Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 383	Here is one company recommended to me: Brandy Mcgrew DeWitt Stern of California Insurance Services 10969 Ventura Boulevard Studio City, CA 91604 Tel. 818-623-5429 Fax. 818-623-5469 bmcgrew@dewittstern.com www.dewittstern.com I still haven't gotten my insurance, although looking at rates and what is and isn't covered, I'm having a tough time deciding what to do as far as how much coverage vs. cost. Wayne __________________ Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30 Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411

December 13th, 2007, 05:10 AM	#377
Bob Hollifield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Roswell Ga. Posts: 19	Anna, Nationwide insurance will let you add an inland marine floater to your tenant or homeowner policy. Be sure to tell them to check professional when they are inputing the data. bob

December 13th, 2007, 07:00 AM	#378
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	Thanks Bob. Would it be better to get your own insurance or use a production's insurance? Is it wise to insure or should I just think of the costs for repair/replacement as a business expense? I mean in the long run it's just stuff. Everything can be replaceable (not people). I haven't had anything break on me until yesterday. Thank God it was only a breakaway cable (don't have time to repair it, have a shoot tomorrow, plus cables are never the same after a repair). For those wondering why I haven't yet, I don't see why someone has to buy insurance and keep throwing money away on the off chance something will happen.

December 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#379
Michael Nistler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Petaluma, CA Posts: 456	Hi Anna, Talk to folks like your local NY professional videographer association for lots of horror stories about getting their gear stolen - even when videotaping an event for many hours and leaving 1-2 minutes for a bathroom break. Then there's the issue of injuring someone with your gear, etc. at a paid event. Insurance may not be for everyone, but it reminds me of the pogniant bumper sticker, "Backups are for sissies!" Regards, Michael

December 13th, 2007, 05:44 PM	#380
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	Ha ha Michael! Call me a rebel! I hear ya on that. But doesn't that fall on the production company?

December 13th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#381
Michael Nistler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Petaluma, CA Posts: 456	Hi Anna, Yes, that's usually true if you're dealing with a legitimate production firm - check your T&Cs to see if you're covered or not. There may be a world of difference between status as an hourly employee, individual contract, business firm subcontract, etc. Indies are another matter, and of course if you are the production company, they let your conscious be your guide! Regards, Michael

December 13th, 2007, 09:35 PM	#382
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	I just bitch until someone pays for the replacement or repair. It's been working fine. I mean if it happens during their production because of someone else (not me), then they're partially liable. Even with insurance it takes forever to actually get anything for your loss and then it's depreciated. Nevermind if it was mint. And what if you have a shoot the next day? Are you supposed to rent 'til they replace? Front the money 'til you get it back? I don't really get it. You're paying either way. Sounds like a racket. I can understand why you would need it for a production but for individuals to insure their gear, I'm still not convinced. I'm super curious though.

December 14th, 2007, 08:29 AM	#384
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	So Steve do you have insurance or do you leave it to the production company?

December 14th, 2007, 09:33 AM	#386
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	Wayne, that's the company I looked at as well. My quote was astronomical. But I was insuring ALL my stuff.

December 14th, 2007, 02:53 PM	#389
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	I can't imagine renting out my gear. Unless it was a sound buddy who needed something right quick I'm not advertising a rental. BTW, not too happy that this got moved. This is an audio equipment question, to generalize it and put it in this thread hurts me. Chris, did you do this? I wanted sound people to answer this specifically, I don't wanna hear from the video folks (no offense to the video guys).

December 14th, 2007, 03:19 PM	#390
Michael Nistler Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Petaluma, CA Posts: 456	Geez Anna, I thought it was a brilliant move that they reposted you here (but what do I know, association was never my strong area). Still, it seems like the cost of pro-audio gear is in the same genre as videographers. Ditto with hazardous problems associated with XLR cables, electrical shock, boom poles vs C stands, etc. OTOH, I'd agree audio engineers work processes are often quite different than a DP. Hopefully, you'll still get some helpful responses here in this thread. Warm Regards, Michael